Jason Todd Questions

[suki_blue]

A couple of quick questions for the DC Comics peeps on my flist. How do you feel about the colour of Jason Todd's hair? Is it actually canon that it's red aside from Batman and Robin? I'm a bit confused about continuity and such. I'm writing a Dick/Tim fic for comicsbigbang and Jason has a fairly major role

Comments

[suki_blue]

Something tells me you feel very passionately about Jason!

For one thing, he can't go to Arkham. It went boom.

I had completely forgotten about that! And I was just talking about it yesterday. Well, thank god that's not central to my plot!

The red color haired is a Pre-Crisis Jason Todd characteristic. There is essentially no way Post-Crisis Jason Todd, who that is supposed to be, has red hair. I love Pre-Crisis Jason (he could have become not Dick Grayson copy, but not the point of my rant), but Post-Crisis Jason had black hair when he met Batman. He lived on the streets. There was no way he was dying his hair, and Grant Morrison lives in his own crackpot world where continuity doesn't seem to exist.

Ah, see I had a feeling that might be the case. Wasn't he trying to get the wheels off the Batmobile or something when they met? The red hair thing was a total shock to me because I don't know pre-Crisis Jason at all and I've only been reading comics for about 4 years now.

Now, if I'm going to ignore the hair colour, I could just ignore other moments from B&R too, like that he never appeared in it at all. I need to re-read BftC cowl now to decide what I shall ignore from that or if I'm going to work around it. I want to have Jason in a state of being shaken up from what he's been doing, wanting to reform but not being able to manage it on his own. I want to force him into another break and have his family, the Batsters, save him and at the same time force him to save himself. Do you know if anyone has some sort of Jason Todd timeline?

The REAL Jason Todd got lost in the multiverse during Countdown to Final Crisis and got replaced by a crazed doppelganger from another Earth (hence red head crazy!Jason).

I really liked Jason in Countdown. Loved Piper and Trickster too :o( Aside from the squiffy ending I enjoyed Countdown more that FC itself!

I just don't like Jason being the Big Bad Villain. It feels like they've gone way too far and now there's no hope of getting him back. I'd rather have a Jason that crossed the line a lot, but who was basically good. Or perhaps I'm romanticising too much. I do that.

Do you know if post-Crisis Jason has tried to hunt out the Joker or has had any runs-ins with the other members of the Batfamily in relation to the Joker?

Oh, and thank you so much for your help!!!

[darkhavens]

Wiki's page on Jason Todd has the basics, and Titans Tower's page on Jason Todd gives more details and an 'essential reading' list too. :D

I may not know canon yet, but I knows where to find it, or something approximating it. ;)

[suki_blue]

Thank you, luv!

I think what's really bothering me is that I would ideally like to rehabilitate Jason from B&R#6 onwards, but can I do that? If he's killed people and now he's been arrested can I realistically get him out of that? Would it be believable that both Dick and Bruce at least would want that or would they want him locked up because it's too late?

I wants to save him, my precioussssss!

[darkhavens]

Hmmm. The killing is a major tripping point because yeah, Dick and Bruce would both want him to pay for his misdeeds, but I'm not sure they'd automatically assume it was too late to save him entirely.

Maybe they could convince the authorities to let them get him treatment for a psychotic break? A private clinic, or even keep him at the manor and have a couple of specialists on retainer?

*ponders*

[suki_blue]

See, if it wasn't for Damian and the issues I need him to have for the story, I would write out B&R and Bftc and make up my own version with no killing. But Damian's issues bounce from Jason's. But I also need Jason redemeable or there's no point :o( I am seriously thinking a private clinic set up by Dick and that's where he's been for the three years since B&R #6. Then Bruce brings him back and he's sort of under house arrest at the Manor. Thoughts?

[darkhavens]

I think the private clinic idea could work. It would hardly be the first time Wayne money has been thrown at a cause for a personal reason, and I bet a private clinic for troubled capes would be very well received by Dick's circle of friends and acquaintances, as well as being used for the rehabilitation of select villains. *g*

And I can easily imagine Bruce wanting to do everything 'in-house' once he's back. He's likely to be even more tightly wound and controlling after his recent escapades. It would be totally in character for him to want Jason where he can keep an eye on him.

[suki_blue]

and I bet a private clinic for troubled capes would be very well received by Dick's circle of friends and acquaintances, as well as being used for the rehabilitation of select villains. *g*

Hmm, that has prompted a little idea. Thanks, luv! ;o)

shiny_glor_chan too lazy to log in at school

[suki_blue]

Quick response since I'm on break from class. <3

I have a definite list of every issue Pre-Crisis Jason Todd was in, and a pretty good list of all the issues for Post-Crisis Jason Todd. It's not quite in order for post-Crisis, but I have uploaded all pre-Crisis issues and can upload pretty much any post-Crisis issue you'd need for reference.

Under the Hood was the only time he went after the Joker, not including the Joker he killed during Countdown (tid-bit: until BftC, that other Joker had been Jason's last kill for a while. I found it a symbolic way to end his killing, since there was no way killing Joker fixed anything. The Bruce that died in front of him during Countdown was still dead).

Aaaand, I'll gather my thoughts for you a lot better when I'm home and have my Jason Todd Manifesto (work in progress) in front of me. ^-^;;

Home and More In Depth Comment~

[shiny_glor_chan]

Something tells me you feel very passionately about Jason!

:D Quite passionate. XD

The only reason I remember it went bomb because the Arkham Asylum tie in in BftC was quite wonderful. XD

Post-Crisis origin story is stealing the tires of the Batmobile. The rest of that story depends if you keep to the first appearance in Batman #408 or if you like the bit of retcon from the Nightwing: Year One.

The red hair thing was a total shock to me because I don't know pre-Crisis Jason at all and I've only been reading comics for about 4 years now.

...hahaha, I've only been reading comics for maybe a year and a half...? Barely. ^-^;; Let's say when I get obsessed, I get obsessed. XD

I need to re-read BftC cowl now to decide what I shall ignore from that or if I'm going to work around it.

Have fun with that. >>;; BtfC made me the angriest I've ever been about fandom anything ever. <<;;

Do you know if anyone has some sort of Jason Todd timeline?

What kind of timeline would you like? I could probably make one for you. Like, his age is compared to other boys or how long he was Robin or how long he was away/dead? XD

Countdown is actually one of my favorite bit of comics, especially the Search for Ray Palmer bits, which were quite wonderful. (Have you seen my posting of the audio book for Countdown? It has a wonderful Jason voice even though they don't have the Piper and Trickster stuff and a few other things.)

I just don't like Jason being the Big Bad Villain. It feels like they've gone way too far and now there's no hope of getting him back. I'd rather have a Jason that crossed the line a lot, but who was basically good. Or perhaps I'm romanticising too much. I do that.

I completely agree. I ignore most of last year's bad characterization. Tony Daniel has done terrible damage to my baby, and unless he helps retcon it, he's on the list of people that deserve a crowbar beating. You're not romanticizing. Marvel handled it well with Bucky, so Jason could have been handled similarly. DC just has dumbass leading them, and this silly idea that letting an artist write AND draw a supposed to be pivotal point for the Batfamily was a GOOD idea. >>;;

So yes, as I said in my anon comment: "Under the Hood was the only time he went after the Joker, not including the Joker he killed during Countdown (tid-bit: until BftC, that other Joker had been Jason's last kill for a while. I found it a symbolic way to end his killing, since there was no way killing Joker fixed anything. The Bruce that died in front of him during Countdown was still dead)."

On that note, canon has yet to have Jason and Babs meet post Jason's return to the living. It is unfortunate because she would understand him best, even with the killing. She understands Joker twisting your life until you don't recognize it anymore. Aaaand, he hasn't meet Cass or Steph (or Helena), and I think at this point, they just want Jay getting laid by anyone other than implying maybe him and Talia did the deed. Bah. >>;;

End rant. ...hope this fits the character count...

Re: Home and More In Depth Comment~

[suki_blue]

tid-bit: until BftC, that other Joker had been Jason's last kill for a while.

Ah, that is an incredibly helpful piece of information. I don't think I even need a time-line now. I think I'm going to re-read under the hood (you know, I think that was the first Batman tbp I bought!!), then I'll have another flick through Countdown (any chance you can remember which issue he killed the other Joker?) and then re-read Bftc and B&R. Oh, and I should probably re-read the issues of Nightwing from the year after IC when Jason took on the Naughty Nightwing role. Oh dear, lots to read. I wish I had a better memory.

...hahaha, I've only been reading comics for maybe a year and a half...? Barely. ^-^;; Let's say when I get obsessed, I get obsessed. XD

LOL, I really thought you'd been reading them for decades! Wow, go you! That's impressive. I understand perfectly why you're pitting bricks right now.

Have fun with that. >>;; BtfC made me the angriest I've ever been about fandom anything ever. <<;;

I'll bet! I enjoyed it being a big Dick fan (and that joke will never get old) so I'm having a ball with all his ... I want to say exposure, but that might be too much. I love that Dick is in the limelight and I'll take all I can get.

I'll admit though that I'm upset at the direction Jason has been taken in. I don't want him to be a villain. I want him to be the guy that operates alongside the rest of the Batfamily making us wonder if Batman's no-killing rule is really for the best. Jason makes me question the Bat and I love that. I can feel his pain and understand his anger.

Sometimes I really do think a retcon is the only answer. Let's wipe the slate clean and start all over.

On that note, canon has yet to have Jason and Babs meet post Jason's return to the living. It is unfortunate because she would understand him best, even with the killing. She understands Joker twisting your life until you don't recognize it anymore.

I would pay serious money to read that. SERIOUS money. Uh, not that I have any. But if I did I'd absolutely pay it.

I feel much clearer on Jason now. Thank you so much for all the help and for letting me talk him through. You're a diamond! *smooch*

Re: Home and More In Depth Comment~

[shiny_glor_chan]

He killed that Joker in Countdown to Final Crisis #13. ;-; Oh god, I wanna write AUs from there. Kyle and Donna were being nice to him! ARGH, WHY CAN'T THE JERKS STAY NICE TO EACH OTHER!? *sighs* >>;;

Mmm, NW:OYL. I wanted a Nightwing threesome. *nods* If Dickie would have only shared.

*blushes* Why thank you! I think working at comic book store for nearly a year helped, but I did most of my reading at home with downloading. >>;;

I think Dick may have been the only okay written character in BftC. Even Alfred and Tim were a bit out of character. I mean, Alfred can dislike Damian all he wants, but after surgery for getting shot from Jason? Alfred would have never let that kid leave. And Tim would not have gone into Jason's Batcave as carelessly as he did. SMART ROBIN, DAMMIT! >>;;

Jason would have been a great little foil for Batman, but no, we can't question THE GODDAMN BATMAN. Oh whatever. >>;;

:D You're welcome~ I love ranting about Jason, so I had fun~ <3

Re: Home and More In Depth Comment~

[suki_blue]

He killed that Joker in Countdown to Final Crisis #13. ;-; Oh god, I wanna write AUs from there. Kyle and Donna were being nice to him! ARGH, WHY CAN'T THE JERKS STAY NICE TO EACH OTHER!? *sighs* >>;;

Oh thank you!! You are such a shiny star. You should write AU's! We all should. We'd probably do a better job than some of the actual writers.

If Dickie would have only shared.

LOL, that reminds me of the artwork ani_bester did for Battle for the Costume Dick and Jason are so cute. DICK DOES NOT SHARE!

I mean, Alfred can dislike Damian all he wants, but after surgery for getting shot from Jason? Alfred would have never let that kid leave.

Very true! Was it in War Games where Dick tried to leave after getting shot in the leg and Alfred threatened to take out his other leg if he didn't sit his arse back down?

:D You're welcome~ I love ranting about Jason, so I had fun~ <3

LOL, yay! Nothing beats a good rant. I was a wreck after DC BROKE BART! and the slightest little thing sent me into a rant about the pointlessness that was The Flash storyline that led to his death.

Re: Home and More In Depth Comment~

[shiny_glor_chan]

You're welcome~ Hehe, a lot of my fic ends up AU somehow. AUs make me happy. XD I can definitely do better than a lot of them. XD

You mean the one in my icon~ XD It looks like Jay wants Dickie hugs when you crop the picture juuuust right. XD

I think so? I skimmed War Games. >.>;;

Haha, on a connecting not Tony Daniel, who wrote BftC and broke Jason, is the one that drew the last three issues of that series that broke Bart. >>;;

Re: Home and More In Depth Comment~

[suki_blue]

Haha, on a connecting not Tony Daniel, who wrote BftC and broke Jason, is the one that drew the last three issues of that series that broke Bart.

That bastard!!!! Right, he's on my shit list now.

Re: Home and More In Depth Comment~

[shiny_glor_chan]

<3 As he should be unless he redeems himself, which seems rather doubtful. :/