It's time for Evil Opposite Day!
...well, not really, but it made a catchy title. *laughs* But anyway, I was thinking about some characters of mine, and how various pairs of them are similar and different...yes, I realize this is a subject that is of interest only to me, but what the hell, I'm making an lj post about it. ^_^;;;
So, this line of thought started with me thinking about Liert and Svyrnn. Comparison between them fascinated me from the beginning, because they're the two worst-personality-having 'good guy' characters I have, but in totally different and yet somewhat similar ways. So, I started thinking about them as foils for each other. Of course that lead to more thinking, and so...yeah, lots of random thinking. Fun thinking, though. *laughs*
At first glance, Svyrnn and Alan seem to be almost opposites or foils or something...and in some ways they ARE opposites (visually, Svyrnn has a lot of dark colors--she is an assassin, and needs to blend in at night--while Alan has more bright, cheery colors. Well, basically Svyrnn wears black; Alan wears colors. XD. And also Alan is friendly while Svyrnn is...not.), but in others they're very similar. Of course, they also have non-obvious opposite elements, too...for example, Svyrnn is bluntly, almost psychotically honest...but Alan is rather deceptive. Not always--he SUCKS at lying, because he looks guilty, but he's good at other types of deception, like acting like he's okay when he isn't. He's good at tricking or at least avoiding authority figures (he avoids social services for YEARS as a child. But then they didn't caren much in the first place.). However, to the characters who know Alan, he seems like a very honest guy (some even remark at one point that Alan couldn't have been lying, because he's a horrible liar and they would have noticed it...but actually, he WAS lying), while they automatically assume Svyrnn can't be trusted because she's with the demons. So, they're the opposite of in-story expectations in that way.
But they have a lot of similarities, both in personality and in their situations. The two detective groups--Jon's and Seegrn's--are sort-of parallels of each other in the first place; Seegrn is Jon's counterpart, as they're both the leaders...aaaand...it kinda falls apart after that, but...anyway...Gereksh is Jared's counterpart--they both are way overprotective of their siblings and quick to jump to conclusions at times. Siess would be Izumi's counterpart--they're the most analytical, practical members of their teams. Amkh is KIND of Isaac's counterpart, in that both are the right-hand person of their leaders, but in personality they're totally different. But anyway, Alan and Svyrnn are each other's counterparts: both are the newest members of their respective teams; both are underestimated and somewhat disliked initially by their teamates; both have abilities that are somewhat uncommon (Svyrnn's is basically unique, whereas Alan just has magic...but he has apocalypse-causing magic, which is pretty much unique anyway). And both of them are sort of curious about the world and can be very...innocent. It seems strange to call either of them innocent--well, Alan less so, but still--but I think of them that way. In Alan's case, he SEEMS innocent because he acts like he's completely naive and cheerful because he doesn't know any better...but actually he knows what a crapsack world he lives in, but believes that it can get better and that people are still basically good. So, he's sort of insanely optimistic and hopeful. And in spite of everything, he's still cheerful and thinks well of people, so he's innocent in the sense that he hasn't become cynical or jaded. And Svyrnn...
Svyrnn seems like the exact opposite of innocent (ooo, more opposites! *laughs*), because prior to the start of the story, her life has essentially consisted of killing people. But she's innocent in the sense that she really doesn't understand what she's doing (well, kind of...it's...complicated. She feels people's deaths the same way she feels thoughts and emotions in general, but she doesn't really understand the concept of death abstractly; she only understands it concretely--that is, how it feels, how it looks, etc. So, she really isn't aware that what she does removes a unique individual from existence, permanently). Initially, she has no real concept of what it even means to be alive, other than in a purely mechanistic or biological sense, so she doesn't grasp the idea that when someone stops existing, it means something...in fact, at one point in her childhood, she describes a dead person as 'not working', as if they were a broken toy. She just doesn't get it. She learns more about it later, with Joe, and develops a rather...creepy...relationship with death, because she does feel it so acutely, but she's still sort of...out there. And she's innocent in the ways of the world in a lot of ways--concepts of behavior, social norms, etc. So, her innocence springs from ignorance in a lot of ways. But also, she views the world in a very 'other' sort of way, making her this sort of...outside observer. So, she and Alan are innocent in totally different ways.
But Svyrnn and Liert, who at first glance seem so similar, seem more like opposites to me. It's true that they do share a lot of traits: both have 'sight' powers (Liert is a Diviner, meaning he's basically a seer...lulz, he's got the Sharingan! Or maybe the Byakugan...[/Naruto jokes] kidding, kidding...but he has the ability to see and foresee things with magic, while Svyrnn has her semi-mind-reading power); both were raised to be sort of human weapons (Svyrnn was trained as an assassin by scientists who thought of her as subhuman; Liert was raised by the Imperial Knights, who raised a number of children with exceptionally strong magic to work in very high-level positions...but treated them like objects in doing so); both have a tendency to say massively inappropriate things at massively inappropriate times; both are tolerated because their abilities are so exceptional that the people they work with can't get anyone else to replace them; both of them have a very complicated relationship with a parent-ish figure; both eventually leave and maybe even betray the group that raised them; both kill people under orders as a large part of their careers; and they're visusually similar, since both have fairly pale skin and dark hair and eyes. Also, both fight with knives.
However, they're also quite different. Liert is extremely intellectual and analytical; Svyrnn is very intuitive and focuses on the concrete. Liert is manipulative; Svyrnn lacks guile because she doesn't understand how to do it properly or why she'd even bother (although she does sometimes threaten people to get them to do stuff; she just doesn't quite grasp how to trick them into it). Liert is highly respected; Svyrnn is completely unknown and a secret. Liert killed his parents; Svyrnn was abandoned by her parents. Liert has normal emotional capacity (sort of); Svyrnn's emotional capacity is screwed up and repressed to the point that she has to relearn emotions.
And most importantly, to my mind, is how they relate to people. Both Alan and Svyrnn have a tendency to relate very, I dunno, sort of innocently to people; they accept people as they are. Of course, Alan is easily tricked by lies and Svyrnn sees right through them (Liert has the same can't-be-lied-to ability, although his is because of his magic and can be fooled by a talented liar; Svyrnn's ability can't be fooled almost at all), but still, they both approach people as people (it seems strange to say about Svyrnn, but she views people as these other, not-her things, not as tools like Liert does). They both see people in a very...holistic? Is that the word I'm looking for? way, whereas Liert sees people in a very cold, intellectual, almost Machiavellian way--he cares about how he can use them to his advantage, and he knows how to do it.
Svyrnn does know a lot about people without intending to--it's very difficult to hide anything from her, and she'll blurt out other people's private information without warning, and without those people realizing she knew it at all. However, that's because to her, the information is no more private and hidden than, say, the color of the sky. It seems obvious because she percieves it automatically. So, she reveals people's secrets because she doesn't realize she shouldn't. If someone she likes tells her NOT to talk about a specific thing, she's perfectly capable of doing so, and generally quite willing to (not for someone she doesn't like, though). So, although Svyrnn has so much knowledge and would make an ideal spy, she lacks the motives of a spy. She doesn't CARE about the information she finds unless it affects people she likes. To her, it's all just meaningless and often confusing random stuff. Often, the reason she reveals private information is because it confuses her and she wants to understand it.
Liert, on the other hand, finds out people's secrets through careful observation and deliberate eaves-dropping. Furthermore, he WANTS to find out people's most private information--he uses it against them, to control and manipulate them. He'll blackmail someone, betray them, whatever, either because he's bored and it amuses him, or because it'll get him something he wants. He's extremely goal-oriented and has few to no moral qualms about using people's trust against them. He'd be an excellent spy...except you'd never be sure he's on your side.
They'd both make bad spies, actually, but for very different reasons. Svyrnn could find out whatever you wanted, but wouldn't bother keeping the information or the fact that she was a spy secret (she'd likely walk right up to the target and say 'hello. Svyrnn is a spy. What are the secret plans?' and think that was perfectly okay). Liert could find out whatever you wanted, but wouldn't stay loyal to you and would then use the fact that you were spying against you.
They're also different in fighting style. Svyrnn is a physical fighter. She has no magic and depends on her fists and her knives in a fight. Liert, on the other hand, is an extremely power magic-user, and relies on that in a fight, using it to enhance his speed and strength.
They both have tortured others (Svyrnn only under orders, Liert...mostly under orders), but using very different methods. Svyrnn starts by just asking for the information she needs, then if the person refuses, asks again. And again. And again. And then says she'll reveal their deepest, darkest secret if they don't cooperate...and procedes to do just that if they don't. Also, because she knows people a little too well, she'll start listing off, in a total monotone, the person's motivations for what they did, and all sorts of rather embarrassing truths about them. She was taught this interrogation technique, and it works pretty well. Her interrogation is basically just a simple deal: tell her what she wants to know, and she'll keep your secrets. No tricky involved; she'll say right off what she knows about you and who she'll tell, and she keeps her word.
Liert, on the other hand, manipulates his victims to make them reveal the information he needs. He doesn't even ask any questions at first; instead, he acts completely nutty, as if he just finds it deeply satisfying to cause people excruciating pain by hand. He also goes in for a lot of, well, semi-psychological physical torture; for instance, extreme violations of personal space, weirdly overaffection behavior, and, erm, forcing victims to swallow deceased comrades eyeballs (yes, he's done this more than once. He...finds it to be useful. *shudders* Ugh, my characters squick me out sometimes...), among other things. He talks to them almost in a soothing voice, as if to a small child, and just looks...entirely too happy about what he's doing. He actually doesn't enjoy torture--he doesn't care enough about people to care about their pain one way or the other--but he acts like he does, and he acts like he's not really following orders properly, making his victims believe that they're in the hands of a completely insane monster. Also, hugging them and stroking their faces while describing in a soft, loving voice exactly what he's going to do to them. He's...a disturbing guy, really.
So, Svyrnn is frightening because she's totally cold and emotionless--Liert is frightening because he puts on an elaborate act. Svyrnn is all business, totally honest--Liert draws out information by trickery and manipulation. They do the same jobs, and do them well, but do them for very different reasons and in very different ways.
Also, their relationships with their parents-ish figures is very different. Svyrnn really does care about Joe, in a limited way because she doesn't fully understand what that even means. He's the closest thing she has to a father (she actually remembers her mother very vaguely, but only as 'the woman who gave birth to Svyrnn', not as a mother. And the memory is extremely vague and fleeting; she was only two when her mother ditched her). She does what he asks her to, and doesn't want to betray him, although she ends up doing so. Liert, on the other hand, has a rather emotionally abusive relationship with Sir Wakar, the man who basically raised him from the time he was around four or so. Liert depends on Wakar in a lot of ways, but hates him for that; he repeatedly tells the poor guy that he's worthless, useless, an idiot, etc.--and because Liert is SO strong and SO intelligent, he can really make someone seem useless and stupid in front of others. Although he's very attached to Wakar, he forcefully pushes the man away as if he hates him because emotional attachment is something Liert can't control, and therefore potentially painful, and therefore something Liert fears and avoids. Really, neither he nor Svyrnn understands how relationships work or how to maintain one properly.
Oddly, though, Svyrnn, for all her weirdness, is much more successful in relationships than Liert. This is possibly because she seems so much defenseless and impaired than him; the scientists who raised her and Joe all felt badly for her because she seemed so screwed up. In contrast, Liert just doesn't seem to need protecting. Even as a very young child, he was highly intelligent and resisted all attempts to parent him. The knights ended up just treating him like a very small adult (Wakar was an exception; he tried to at least treat Liert somewhat like a child...he was not entirely successful. He DID help Liert with his severe nightmares, though). Also, although Svyrnn easily hurts people without realizing it, she doesn't do it on purpose; Liert goes out of his way to hurt everyone who tries to be friendly with him.
For example, Svyrnn's brother (adoptive brother), Gereksh, really and truly cares about Svyrnn--and in her own way, she's very devoted to him. She's very bad at reciprocated affection, but given time and a lot of patience, Svyrnn does develop attachments and learn some rudimentary ways of showing that she cares, even if it's just creepy things like offering people random bits of roadkill she found so they won't be hungry. She tries to care for them; she just doesn't know HOW. And, although she causes emotional and physical pain at times, she's genuinely confused as to what's happened and why, which maybe makes it a little easier for others to not have quite as much anger towards her.
Liert, on the other hand, repeatedly tells others that he finds them useless and would be well pleased if they were to die--and doesn't mind graphically describing how he would like them to die. He deliberately, systematically detroys anyone he really doesn't like, and is cruel to those who get in his way. Because he actively destroys any relationships he starts to form, he's much harder to tolerate in a lot of ways. Also, while Svyrnn becomes more affectionate and, well, just generally alive-seeming as time goes on, Liert becomes more of an asshole the longer you know him because there's increasing risks that he might actually start liking someone and thus possibly get hurt.
so, although both characters are people who break social conventions and are brilliant in a raised-by-wolves sort of way, they seem almost opposite to me. Svyrnn is sort of...murderously innocent. I drew a picture of her once with a caption like that, actually--it said 'murderous innocence' and showed her standing facing the viewer, a somewhat blank, confused look on her face, with her head tilted to one side and a severed head in one hand. It's kinda creepy, actually. But it sums her up very well, I think--she does things that are horrific and grotesque, but she does them in this very weird ignorance, and often thinks she's actually doing something GOOD because she's been taught as much. What she really needs is for some insanely patient person to help her learn to relate better to the world, and she does develop more and understand things more with the help of Joe, her brother, Alan, and other people. Liert, on the other hand, is a bitter and malicious cynic. He feels that the world is a shitty-ass place, everyone in it should die, and there's no point to anything. He feels that, since he has a lot more power than most people, he can do whatever the hell he wants and no one can control him--which is kinda true; he's one of very few people that can do his job, and so he's just not expendable, even though he's rather horrible. He likes the war because he thinks it's more interesting than piece, and he uses people like little chess pieces in a game because he's bored. It's his intellect that makes him so awful, to my mind.
See, I think of Svyrnn as sort of...almost amoral. Because she just does not understand a lot of the concepts of morality, and so is unable to figure out what things should and shouldn't be done, what things are wrong and which are right, etc. These are all things that she slowly learns, often with great difficulty because it seems confusing and abstract to her. But she DOES learn, and once she starts to understand the concept of 'good' and 'bad'--it really starts to hit home when she realizes that she doesn't like it when people she likes get hurt--she actually makes great effort to learn about these things, even though it often frustrates her. She's screwed up and does horrible things, but she does them because she honestly doesn't understand why she shouldn't, or even that she shouldn't. Because of that, I find it hard to say she's morally guilty of the things she does without understanding them. Also, once she starts to learn about good and bad, and doing good, and stuff like that, she actually TRIES to learn. So, she has a capacity for growth and really struggles to make progress.
Liert, on the other hand, is very much immoral. He knows the way society works, he knows about concepts of evil and good--he debates with Ray about them, actually, and is highly educated on the subject--but he chooses to ignore it all because he just doesn't care. He does end up becoming more moral and more 'good guy'-ish, but it's not quite the same as Svyrnn, who learns about these things for the first time--instead, he has to come to terms with himself and make serious changes. His cynicism and bitterness make it hard for him to trust in or care about anything.
Oh, goodness, I make Liert sound really terrible, don't I...? But, well, he kind of is...^_^;;; He does have REASONS for what he does, but because he's aware of it and has the capacity to choose not to hurt others, it's no excuse. See, in Svyrnn's case, the fact that she honestly doesn't know any reasons why she shouldn't just up and kill someone excuses her morally, to my mind. Because if you don't know that it's a bad thing to do...how can you be expected to just magically realize you shouldn't do it? However, Liert DOES know that what he's doing is wrong, even monstrous--and he chooses to do it anyway. So, I see him as very much morally culpable.
Interestingly, though, I don't see the people he's killed as the worst thing he's done. I mean, it's obviously a horrible thing to do, but in context of his society, those killings are actually sanctioned by his government (most are either political assassinations--say, killing a person who's a threat to the Emperor, might kill the Emperor, etc.--or in battle because there's a war going on). It doesn't excuse the fact that he does it, but I see it as less outright evil, because he doesn't do that for himself. He doesn't enjoy killing, he just does it because that's what his job is. He just...he doesn't really commit any crimes until he turns traitor to help the rebels, and as the rebels' cause is actually a just one, it just doesn't seem all that evil to me. So, he actually follows his orders--most of which are either information-gathering or killing-people based--fairly faithfully.
But he's just so...for example, as a child, Liert understandably was unhappy when Sir Wakar was reassigned (initially, the Emperor wanted him to train some of the other children in the program, such as Niles). The guy had been the only constant in his life for several years. However, a more sane person probably would have, oh I don't know, told someone that it bothered him. Instead, Liert's reaction was to psychologically torment Sir Wakar's replacement, including giving the guy horrible nightmares with magic (Liert's divination abilities include a form of astral-projection), until the poor guy had a nervous breakdown and Sir Wakar was reassigned. So, yeah, Liert doesn't have much concern for other people; he just does whatever he decides is most effective so he can get what he wants. He didn't want to TELL someone what he wanted because that would show that he had an attachment to Sir Wakar, which could be used against him--a weakness. So, he tormented this poor guy instead.
So, it's really his behavior towards others that makes him so, well, awful. He treats others as tools...and generally, he treats them as inferiors (and since he's in a high-level position and is an extremely powerful person, he gets away with it). He has little respect for others. But, he also has little respect towards himself. He treats others as inferior because he himself feels so worthless, and it's the only way he knows to protect himself from those feelings. He hurts people because he doesn't want to be hurt himself. He is also a bit of a jerk, but even so. He doesn't trust anyone because, well...well, admittedly, he has little reason to trust most people. His own father tried to kill him (his mother died in childbirth or soon after--haven't totally decided yet--and this, combined with a poor harvest, made his village decide that he was possessed by an evil spirit, and that he must be killed in order for the crops to prosper. His father decided to do the deed himself because he felt it would be kinder to at least let Liert die as painlessly and peacefully as he could--he really did care about his son. But Liert didn't know that.), so he feels that even familiar affection is just an illusion, and that all people will betray each other when things get tough. He refuses to listen to any evidence that might prove him wrong because he has little respect for others (it's true that himself feels somewhat worthless, but that doesn't mean he actually respects others--he thinks EVERYONE is worthless, himself included). Although he lives in a fairly religious society--Sir Wakar himself is quite faithful to the Sea Goddess--Liert believes that there are no gods and there's no afterlife or meaning to life. He takes a cynical view of most things and feels that there's no point in being alive, except that death might suck, so he tries to avoid it. He's a rather miserable person.
It's kind of weird, actually, because Svyrnn commits way more outright immoral acts--such as murdering people--although they aren't illegal until she leaves the scientists. First she's an assassin, then she becomes a serial killer. And yet, I consider her much more innocent, because she's not aware of what these things mean. Liert, on the other hand, doesn't do much that's overtly evil--he's mostly the trickery and manipulation type, not the murderous type (although he's deadly in combat--but that's not quite the same as murdering a defenseless person). And yet, he seems much more morally reprehensible to me, because he's extremely cruel to others on purpose.
He does eventually stop being quite such an asshole...still as asshole, but less so. More of a snarky jerk than the outright cruel Machiavelli he was at first. This is because of Ray, who is an extremely ethical and just person. Normally Liert would just mock these attitudes--and he does--but because he also respects Ray as an intellectual equal, he can't dismiss her as easily as he has others. So, he ends up gradually starting to change his views. He won't admit it, though...^_^;;; See, Sir Wakar said the same things, but a) Liert was not willing to listen to him and did not respect him all that much, and b) he never tried to stop Liert from doing these things; Ray does. She insists that, if Liert wants to work with her platoon or whatever the term would be, he must follow their laws. Because he thinks she's interesting, he agrees to do so. Sir Wakar, and just about everybody else, basically just let him get away with anything, because he was very high-ranking and they desperately needed him. Ray needs his abilities just as much, but is hella stubborn about her beliefs and refuses to compromise her morals even if it means they lose Liert's help; they had gotten by before he showed up, after all. So, this actually does manage to make an impact on Liert. Also, Ray is a successful military leader...without compromising her principals. That rather fascinates Liert.
So, he actually does change...the worst thing about him is really that he doesn't care about life at all (his or others') and that he's very emotionally abusive. However, he eventually is at least willing to accept that it's illegal to randomly kill people and therefore he won't...and he stops being emotionally abusive eventually. For a number of reasons. For one thing, the reason he did it in the first place was basically fear. Unlike someone who abuses others because they enjoy it, Liert does it to protect himself; he's terrified of connecting with anyone because he feels it'll just end badly. so, he attacks everyone. Really, the only people he goes after in any serious way are the people he actually cares about (ie, Wakar and Ray). Everyone else, he doesn't CARE enough to bother hurting them.
Actually, he does that as a child, too...he repeatedly pushes Sir Wakar away because he wants to see if Wakar will leave. He feels that people will most likely abandon you, so he strives to make it happen so it's not unexpected. Basically, he wants to be in control of it. But Wakar is a rather stubborn guy himself, and very dutiful, so he sticks around. Liert ends up becoming attached to him (the guy is basically the only parental figure he has at that point), but is angry that he's attached to him, so he lashes out. His emotional stability can be...poor.
He's not really sadistic so much as...defensive. He doesn't enjoy hurting Wakar and Ray, but he sees it as his most effective defense mechanism. However, he starts to gradually change, although it gets worse before it gets better because he's so pissed off that he started changing at all...^_^;;;; He's kind of a contrary guy.
He never stops being rude and rather crude at times, but he does stop being so malicious (although if anyone threatens Ray or his children...he lashes out like whoa. He's rather defensive of his kids). So...he's a 'jerk with a heart of gold', to quote tvtropes? ^_^;;; He kind of is, though. Because, he actually is a reasonably good person at the core. He just...needs to get to the point where he feels secure enough to actually show that.
I dunno, I find him interesting to write. I don't have many characters who are quite so...well...yeah...Eridiel is borderline--he does kill rather a lot of people, but that's because he's a vampire and hunts them down as prey; he doesn't LIKE doing it, it's just that he can't stop. Also he serves Volcanon in his high-fantasy incarnation, which means he's obeying the orders of a god whose plans involve rather a large number of deaths. And he is a rather snarkily malicious person. But he's just not on the same level as Liert, because Liert is just SO over-the-top assholish. He's just...augh, he makes you want to smack him.
And now, because I have babbled on long enough yet...comparing the Insane Death Note AU characters with their Death Note alternate universe doubles!
First up: Ray and Light, because they're the easiest. *laughs* Well...they were basically designed to be very similar. They're quite similar in looks--at one point, Ray gets out of a tricky infiltration attempt gone wrong by claiming that Light is her brother, and she's traveling. The guard believes this because they look so alike, so they get out safely. Also, they're both rather intense about justice, although Ray doesn't go all batshit insane about it. She does join the revolution, though, and does a lot to really get it off the ground. She's a person who can be very charming when she wants to be, like Light, but who is very, very serious about her plans and thinks them through quite meticulously. She's also very much a leader; her troops follow her with incredible loyalty. Light gets the same kind of loyalty from the detective squad in Death Note, although that's partly because of skilled lying....^_^;;;; Ray doesn't lie unless she's in some sort of undercover situation, though. Also, she can be somewhat stern because she just takes her job so seriously. they both use death powers, too, although--in my insane AU version--the idea is that these powers must be swapped for something. Light swaps his mind (in my crazy AU, Kira is a separate entity that takes over Light); Ray swaps her body (meaning she's slowly dying, and it's very tiring to use the power because it saps her physical strength--this is why she's chronically ill during the war, because of the death power). So, they're quite similar. Oh yeah, except that Ray is a woman and Light is a guy. But that seemed rather obvious, so I forgot to mention it...*laughs*
Next: Liert and L. They were designed to be very similar in appearence, but totally opposite in personality. Well, kinda. They have similar looks, except that Liert isn't sleep-deprived (as a Diviner, he needs to recharge by sleeping, and his astral-projection ability essentially produces a sleep-like state in his body. anyway, he would quickly die of exhaustion if he used his magic AND didn't get enough sleep) and he has good posture (he was raised by soldiers, so he was taught to stand very, very straight...*laughs*). Also, he wears shoes (he couldn't really run around in combat without decent footwear, and he does a lot of traveling across rough terrain, as well). But they look pretty similar. However, Liert, although he's just as not-keen-on-people as L, deals with them a lot better superficially, because he knows how he's supposed to act (as a spy/infiltrator, he kinda has to be able to do that). He usually doesn't bother though. He's a lot more out-and-out rude than L, as well, and often says things just to start a fight, because he thinks it's interesting. Also, he doesn't really care about which side he serves initially, just as long as he's not bored (Liert is bored by life because of his extreme existentialism and nihillism). And he treats his subordinate, Sir Wakar, like crap. So, although they are intellectually equal, and visually similar, their behavior is very different, so much so that Light is rather shocked by the contrast--he initially assumes that Liert is probably a lot like L, because after all he's a lot like his double, Ray...and then Liert opens his mouth and it goes down in flames. XD
Both Ray and Liert are a lot more physically dangerous than their doubles, simply because they've been raised as soldiers during a time of war. Ray is not quite as book-smart as Light because her education wasn't as extensive, but she holds her own in debate and planning because she too is highly intelligent.
Another difference is that Liert works for Ray and is actually very loyal to her, in his own weird way, whereas Light was sort-of working for L and planning to kill him (well, Kira was planning to kill him, in my crazy AU Light wasn't...the reversal of the superior/subordinate thing still holds, though). Actually, one of the reasons Liert dislikes L so much is because he doesn't protect Light the same way Liert protects Ray; Liert sees himself as sort of a bodyguard or something, because he realizes that Ray is very much the 'face' of the revolution--if she were to die, the rebels would lose hope. So, he protects her (although she's pretty strong...but not nearly as strong as Liert, because he's kind of bizarrely powerful. Her death power could easily beat him, though, except it exhausts her to use it too much, so she has to rely on others for a lot of the combat so she can save her strength for the key battles).
So...yeah, basically I just like exploring the different-but-similar dynamic. And yes, it took me aaaaaaall of that text to say that. *laughs*
I do find Liert to be an interesting character, though...hmmm, I seem to have a penchant for screwed up relationships...and also student/mentor relationships, because I think that dynamic is cool. So, that's a lot of where Liert and Wakar come from--that sort of relationship. Eridiel and Zekiel are sort-of that dynamic as well, until Zekiel becomes a full-fledged wizard and isn't Eridiel's apprentice anymore (at which point they become a screwed up relationship...XD) I also seem to have an obsession with the whole 'saving power of love' thing, because Liert is far from the first character who begins to change because of a relationship with someone (specifically, Ray...he starts to reconsider a lot of his basic assumptions about life because of her, and ends up changing quite a bit. He didn't really do it for her, though, more like she caused him to think about it...he's the kind of guy who, upon finding his worldview irrefutably inadequate, actually does try to change it to something more accurate. ^_^;;;;)
So...yeah...need some sleep now. Also I need to stop ranting on about things no one but me is interested in...*laughs*
So, this line of thought started with me thinking about Liert and Svyrnn. Comparison between them fascinated me from the beginning, because they're the two worst-personality-having 'good guy' characters I have, but in totally different and yet somewhat similar ways. So, I started thinking about them as foils for each other. Of course that lead to more thinking, and so...yeah, lots of random thinking. Fun thinking, though. *laughs*
At first glance, Svyrnn and Alan seem to be almost opposites or foils or something...and in some ways they ARE opposites (visually, Svyrnn has a lot of dark colors--she is an assassin, and needs to blend in at night--while Alan has more bright, cheery colors. Well, basically Svyrnn wears black; Alan wears colors. XD. And also Alan is friendly while Svyrnn is...not.), but in others they're very similar. Of course, they also have non-obvious opposite elements, too...for example, Svyrnn is bluntly, almost psychotically honest...but Alan is rather deceptive. Not always--he SUCKS at lying, because he looks guilty, but he's good at other types of deception, like acting like he's okay when he isn't. He's good at tricking or at least avoiding authority figures (he avoids social services for YEARS as a child. But then they didn't caren much in the first place.). However, to the characters who know Alan, he seems like a very honest guy (some even remark at one point that Alan couldn't have been lying, because he's a horrible liar and they would have noticed it...but actually, he WAS lying), while they automatically assume Svyrnn can't be trusted because she's with the demons. So, they're the opposite of in-story expectations in that way.
But they have a lot of similarities, both in personality and in their situations. The two detective groups--Jon's and Seegrn's--are sort-of parallels of each other in the first place; Seegrn is Jon's counterpart, as they're both the leaders...aaaand...it kinda falls apart after that, but...anyway...Gereksh is Jared's counterpart--they both are way overprotective of their siblings and quick to jump to conclusions at times. Siess would be Izumi's counterpart--they're the most analytical, practical members of their teams. Amkh is KIND of Isaac's counterpart, in that both are the right-hand person of their leaders, but in personality they're totally different. But anyway, Alan and Svyrnn are each other's counterparts: both are the newest members of their respective teams; both are underestimated and somewhat disliked initially by their teamates; both have abilities that are somewhat uncommon (Svyrnn's is basically unique, whereas Alan just has magic...but he has apocalypse-causing magic, which is pretty much unique anyway). And both of them are sort of curious about the world and can be very...innocent. It seems strange to call either of them innocent--well, Alan less so, but still--but I think of them that way. In Alan's case, he SEEMS innocent because he acts like he's completely naive and cheerful because he doesn't know any better...but actually he knows what a crapsack world he lives in, but believes that it can get better and that people are still basically good. So, he's sort of insanely optimistic and hopeful. And in spite of everything, he's still cheerful and thinks well of people, so he's innocent in the sense that he hasn't become cynical or jaded. And Svyrnn...
Svyrnn seems like the exact opposite of innocent (ooo, more opposites! *laughs*), because prior to the start of the story, her life has essentially consisted of killing people. But she's innocent in the sense that she really doesn't understand what she's doing (well, kind of...it's...complicated. She feels people's deaths the same way she feels thoughts and emotions in general, but she doesn't really understand the concept of death abstractly; she only understands it concretely--that is, how it feels, how it looks, etc. So, she really isn't aware that what she does removes a unique individual from existence, permanently). Initially, she has no real concept of what it even means to be alive, other than in a purely mechanistic or biological sense, so she doesn't grasp the idea that when someone stops existing, it means something...in fact, at one point in her childhood, she describes a dead person as 'not working', as if they were a broken toy. She just doesn't get it. She learns more about it later, with Joe, and develops a rather...creepy...relationship with death, because she does feel it so acutely, but she's still sort of...out there. And she's innocent in the ways of the world in a lot of ways--concepts of behavior, social norms, etc. So, her innocence springs from ignorance in a lot of ways. But also, she views the world in a very 'other' sort of way, making her this sort of...outside observer. So, she and Alan are innocent in totally different ways.
But Svyrnn and Liert, who at first glance seem so similar, seem more like opposites to me. It's true that they do share a lot of traits: both have 'sight' powers (Liert is a Diviner, meaning he's basically a seer...lulz, he's got the Sharingan! Or maybe the Byakugan...[/Naruto jokes] kidding, kidding...but he has the ability to see and foresee things with magic, while Svyrnn has her semi-mind-reading power); both were raised to be sort of human weapons (Svyrnn was trained as an assassin by scientists who thought of her as subhuman; Liert was raised by the Imperial Knights, who raised a number of children with exceptionally strong magic to work in very high-level positions...but treated them like objects in doing so); both have a tendency to say massively inappropriate things at massively inappropriate times; both are tolerated because their abilities are so exceptional that the people they work with can't get anyone else to replace them; both of them have a very complicated relationship with a parent-ish figure; both eventually leave and maybe even betray the group that raised them; both kill people under orders as a large part of their careers; and they're visusually similar, since both have fairly pale skin and dark hair and eyes. Also, both fight with knives.
However, they're also quite different. Liert is extremely intellectual and analytical; Svyrnn is very intuitive and focuses on the concrete. Liert is manipulative; Svyrnn lacks guile because she doesn't understand how to do it properly or why she'd even bother (although she does sometimes threaten people to get them to do stuff; she just doesn't quite grasp how to trick them into it). Liert is highly respected; Svyrnn is completely unknown and a secret. Liert killed his parents; Svyrnn was abandoned by her parents. Liert has normal emotional capacity (sort of); Svyrnn's emotional capacity is screwed up and repressed to the point that she has to relearn emotions.
And most importantly, to my mind, is how they relate to people. Both Alan and Svyrnn have a tendency to relate very, I dunno, sort of innocently to people; they accept people as they are. Of course, Alan is easily tricked by lies and Svyrnn sees right through them (Liert has the same can't-be-lied-to ability, although his is because of his magic and can be fooled by a talented liar; Svyrnn's ability can't be fooled almost at all), but still, they both approach people as people (it seems strange to say about Svyrnn, but she views people as these other, not-her things, not as tools like Liert does). They both see people in a very...holistic? Is that the word I'm looking for? way, whereas Liert sees people in a very cold, intellectual, almost Machiavellian way--he cares about how he can use them to his advantage, and he knows how to do it.
Svyrnn does know a lot about people without intending to--it's very difficult to hide anything from her, and she'll blurt out other people's private information without warning, and without those people realizing she knew it at all. However, that's because to her, the information is no more private and hidden than, say, the color of the sky. It seems obvious because she percieves it automatically. So, she reveals people's secrets because she doesn't realize she shouldn't. If someone she likes tells her NOT to talk about a specific thing, she's perfectly capable of doing so, and generally quite willing to (not for someone she doesn't like, though). So, although Svyrnn has so much knowledge and would make an ideal spy, she lacks the motives of a spy. She doesn't CARE about the information she finds unless it affects people she likes. To her, it's all just meaningless and often confusing random stuff. Often, the reason she reveals private information is because it confuses her and she wants to understand it.
Liert, on the other hand, finds out people's secrets through careful observation and deliberate eaves-dropping. Furthermore, he WANTS to find out people's most private information--he uses it against them, to control and manipulate them. He'll blackmail someone, betray them, whatever, either because he's bored and it amuses him, or because it'll get him something he wants. He's extremely goal-oriented and has few to no moral qualms about using people's trust against them. He'd be an excellent spy...except you'd never be sure he's on your side.
They'd both make bad spies, actually, but for very different reasons. Svyrnn could find out whatever you wanted, but wouldn't bother keeping the information or the fact that she was a spy secret (she'd likely walk right up to the target and say 'hello. Svyrnn is a spy. What are the secret plans?' and think that was perfectly okay). Liert could find out whatever you wanted, but wouldn't stay loyal to you and would then use the fact that you were spying against you.
They're also different in fighting style. Svyrnn is a physical fighter. She has no magic and depends on her fists and her knives in a fight. Liert, on the other hand, is an extremely power magic-user, and relies on that in a fight, using it to enhance his speed and strength.
They both have tortured others (Svyrnn only under orders, Liert...mostly under orders), but using very different methods. Svyrnn starts by just asking for the information she needs, then if the person refuses, asks again. And again. And again. And then says she'll reveal their deepest, darkest secret if they don't cooperate...and procedes to do just that if they don't. Also, because she knows people a little too well, she'll start listing off, in a total monotone, the person's motivations for what they did, and all sorts of rather embarrassing truths about them. She was taught this interrogation technique, and it works pretty well. Her interrogation is basically just a simple deal: tell her what she wants to know, and she'll keep your secrets. No tricky involved; she'll say right off what she knows about you and who she'll tell, and she keeps her word.
Liert, on the other hand, manipulates his victims to make them reveal the information he needs. He doesn't even ask any questions at first; instead, he acts completely nutty, as if he just finds it deeply satisfying to cause people excruciating pain by hand. He also goes in for a lot of, well, semi-psychological physical torture; for instance, extreme violations of personal space, weirdly overaffection behavior, and, erm, forcing victims to swallow deceased comrades eyeballs (yes, he's done this more than once. He...finds it to be useful. *shudders* Ugh, my characters squick me out sometimes...), among other things. He talks to them almost in a soothing voice, as if to a small child, and just looks...entirely too happy about what he's doing. He actually doesn't enjoy torture--he doesn't care enough about people to care about their pain one way or the other--but he acts like he does, and he acts like he's not really following orders properly, making his victims believe that they're in the hands of a completely insane monster. Also, hugging them and stroking their faces while describing in a soft, loving voice exactly what he's going to do to them. He's...a disturbing guy, really.
So, Svyrnn is frightening because she's totally cold and emotionless--Liert is frightening because he puts on an elaborate act. Svyrnn is all business, totally honest--Liert draws out information by trickery and manipulation. They do the same jobs, and do them well, but do them for very different reasons and in very different ways.
Also, their relationships with their parents-ish figures is very different. Svyrnn really does care about Joe, in a limited way because she doesn't fully understand what that even means. He's the closest thing she has to a father (she actually remembers her mother very vaguely, but only as 'the woman who gave birth to Svyrnn', not as a mother. And the memory is extremely vague and fleeting; she was only two when her mother ditched her). She does what he asks her to, and doesn't want to betray him, although she ends up doing so. Liert, on the other hand, has a rather emotionally abusive relationship with Sir Wakar, the man who basically raised him from the time he was around four or so. Liert depends on Wakar in a lot of ways, but hates him for that; he repeatedly tells the poor guy that he's worthless, useless, an idiot, etc.--and because Liert is SO strong and SO intelligent, he can really make someone seem useless and stupid in front of others. Although he's very attached to Wakar, he forcefully pushes the man away as if he hates him because emotional attachment is something Liert can't control, and therefore potentially painful, and therefore something Liert fears and avoids. Really, neither he nor Svyrnn understands how relationships work or how to maintain one properly.
Oddly, though, Svyrnn, for all her weirdness, is much more successful in relationships than Liert. This is possibly because she seems so much defenseless and impaired than him; the scientists who raised her and Joe all felt badly for her because she seemed so screwed up. In contrast, Liert just doesn't seem to need protecting. Even as a very young child, he was highly intelligent and resisted all attempts to parent him. The knights ended up just treating him like a very small adult (Wakar was an exception; he tried to at least treat Liert somewhat like a child...he was not entirely successful. He DID help Liert with his severe nightmares, though). Also, although Svyrnn easily hurts people without realizing it, she doesn't do it on purpose; Liert goes out of his way to hurt everyone who tries to be friendly with him.
For example, Svyrnn's brother (adoptive brother), Gereksh, really and truly cares about Svyrnn--and in her own way, she's very devoted to him. She's very bad at reciprocated affection, but given time and a lot of patience, Svyrnn does develop attachments and learn some rudimentary ways of showing that she cares, even if it's just creepy things like offering people random bits of roadkill she found so they won't be hungry. She tries to care for them; she just doesn't know HOW. And, although she causes emotional and physical pain at times, she's genuinely confused as to what's happened and why, which maybe makes it a little easier for others to not have quite as much anger towards her.
Liert, on the other hand, repeatedly tells others that he finds them useless and would be well pleased if they were to die--and doesn't mind graphically describing how he would like them to die. He deliberately, systematically detroys anyone he really doesn't like, and is cruel to those who get in his way. Because he actively destroys any relationships he starts to form, he's much harder to tolerate in a lot of ways. Also, while Svyrnn becomes more affectionate and, well, just generally alive-seeming as time goes on, Liert becomes more of an asshole the longer you know him because there's increasing risks that he might actually start liking someone and thus possibly get hurt.
so, although both characters are people who break social conventions and are brilliant in a raised-by-wolves sort of way, they seem almost opposite to me. Svyrnn is sort of...murderously innocent. I drew a picture of her once with a caption like that, actually--it said 'murderous innocence' and showed her standing facing the viewer, a somewhat blank, confused look on her face, with her head tilted to one side and a severed head in one hand. It's kinda creepy, actually. But it sums her up very well, I think--she does things that are horrific and grotesque, but she does them in this very weird ignorance, and often thinks she's actually doing something GOOD because she's been taught as much. What she really needs is for some insanely patient person to help her learn to relate better to the world, and she does develop more and understand things more with the help of Joe, her brother, Alan, and other people. Liert, on the other hand, is a bitter and malicious cynic. He feels that the world is a shitty-ass place, everyone in it should die, and there's no point to anything. He feels that, since he has a lot more power than most people, he can do whatever the hell he wants and no one can control him--which is kinda true; he's one of very few people that can do his job, and so he's just not expendable, even though he's rather horrible. He likes the war because he thinks it's more interesting than piece, and he uses people like little chess pieces in a game because he's bored. It's his intellect that makes him so awful, to my mind.
See, I think of Svyrnn as sort of...almost amoral. Because she just does not understand a lot of the concepts of morality, and so is unable to figure out what things should and shouldn't be done, what things are wrong and which are right, etc. These are all things that she slowly learns, often with great difficulty because it seems confusing and abstract to her. But she DOES learn, and once she starts to understand the concept of 'good' and 'bad'--it really starts to hit home when she realizes that she doesn't like it when people she likes get hurt--she actually makes great effort to learn about these things, even though it often frustrates her. She's screwed up and does horrible things, but she does them because she honestly doesn't understand why she shouldn't, or even that she shouldn't. Because of that, I find it hard to say she's morally guilty of the things she does without understanding them. Also, once she starts to learn about good and bad, and doing good, and stuff like that, she actually TRIES to learn. So, she has a capacity for growth and really struggles to make progress.
Liert, on the other hand, is very much immoral. He knows the way society works, he knows about concepts of evil and good--he debates with Ray about them, actually, and is highly educated on the subject--but he chooses to ignore it all because he just doesn't care. He does end up becoming more moral and more 'good guy'-ish, but it's not quite the same as Svyrnn, who learns about these things for the first time--instead, he has to come to terms with himself and make serious changes. His cynicism and bitterness make it hard for him to trust in or care about anything.
Oh, goodness, I make Liert sound really terrible, don't I...? But, well, he kind of is...^_^;;; He does have REASONS for what he does, but because he's aware of it and has the capacity to choose not to hurt others, it's no excuse. See, in Svyrnn's case, the fact that she honestly doesn't know any reasons why she shouldn't just up and kill someone excuses her morally, to my mind. Because if you don't know that it's a bad thing to do...how can you be expected to just magically realize you shouldn't do it? However, Liert DOES know that what he's doing is wrong, even monstrous--and he chooses to do it anyway. So, I see him as very much morally culpable.
Interestingly, though, I don't see the people he's killed as the worst thing he's done. I mean, it's obviously a horrible thing to do, but in context of his society, those killings are actually sanctioned by his government (most are either political assassinations--say, killing a person who's a threat to the Emperor, might kill the Emperor, etc.--or in battle because there's a war going on). It doesn't excuse the fact that he does it, but I see it as less outright evil, because he doesn't do that for himself. He doesn't enjoy killing, he just does it because that's what his job is. He just...he doesn't really commit any crimes until he turns traitor to help the rebels, and as the rebels' cause is actually a just one, it just doesn't seem all that evil to me. So, he actually follows his orders--most of which are either information-gathering or killing-people based--fairly faithfully.
But he's just so...for example, as a child, Liert understandably was unhappy when Sir Wakar was reassigned (initially, the Emperor wanted him to train some of the other children in the program, such as Niles). The guy had been the only constant in his life for several years. However, a more sane person probably would have, oh I don't know, told someone that it bothered him. Instead, Liert's reaction was to psychologically torment Sir Wakar's replacement, including giving the guy horrible nightmares with magic (Liert's divination abilities include a form of astral-projection), until the poor guy had a nervous breakdown and Sir Wakar was reassigned. So, yeah, Liert doesn't have much concern for other people; he just does whatever he decides is most effective so he can get what he wants. He didn't want to TELL someone what he wanted because that would show that he had an attachment to Sir Wakar, which could be used against him--a weakness. So, he tormented this poor guy instead.
So, it's really his behavior towards others that makes him so, well, awful. He treats others as tools...and generally, he treats them as inferiors (and since he's in a high-level position and is an extremely powerful person, he gets away with it). He has little respect for others. But, he also has little respect towards himself. He treats others as inferior because he himself feels so worthless, and it's the only way he knows to protect himself from those feelings. He hurts people because he doesn't want to be hurt himself. He is also a bit of a jerk, but even so. He doesn't trust anyone because, well...well, admittedly, he has little reason to trust most people. His own father tried to kill him (his mother died in childbirth or soon after--haven't totally decided yet--and this, combined with a poor harvest, made his village decide that he was possessed by an evil spirit, and that he must be killed in order for the crops to prosper. His father decided to do the deed himself because he felt it would be kinder to at least let Liert die as painlessly and peacefully as he could--he really did care about his son. But Liert didn't know that.), so he feels that even familiar affection is just an illusion, and that all people will betray each other when things get tough. He refuses to listen to any evidence that might prove him wrong because he has little respect for others (it's true that himself feels somewhat worthless, but that doesn't mean he actually respects others--he thinks EVERYONE is worthless, himself included). Although he lives in a fairly religious society--Sir Wakar himself is quite faithful to the Sea Goddess--Liert believes that there are no gods and there's no afterlife or meaning to life. He takes a cynical view of most things and feels that there's no point in being alive, except that death might suck, so he tries to avoid it. He's a rather miserable person.
It's kind of weird, actually, because Svyrnn commits way more outright immoral acts--such as murdering people--although they aren't illegal until she leaves the scientists. First she's an assassin, then she becomes a serial killer. And yet, I consider her much more innocent, because she's not aware of what these things mean. Liert, on the other hand, doesn't do much that's overtly evil--he's mostly the trickery and manipulation type, not the murderous type (although he's deadly in combat--but that's not quite the same as murdering a defenseless person). And yet, he seems much more morally reprehensible to me, because he's extremely cruel to others on purpose.
He does eventually stop being quite such an asshole...still as asshole, but less so. More of a snarky jerk than the outright cruel Machiavelli he was at first. This is because of Ray, who is an extremely ethical and just person. Normally Liert would just mock these attitudes--and he does--but because he also respects Ray as an intellectual equal, he can't dismiss her as easily as he has others. So, he ends up gradually starting to change his views. He won't admit it, though...^_^;;; See, Sir Wakar said the same things, but a) Liert was not willing to listen to him and did not respect him all that much, and b) he never tried to stop Liert from doing these things; Ray does. She insists that, if Liert wants to work with her platoon or whatever the term would be, he must follow their laws. Because he thinks she's interesting, he agrees to do so. Sir Wakar, and just about everybody else, basically just let him get away with anything, because he was very high-ranking and they desperately needed him. Ray needs his abilities just as much, but is hella stubborn about her beliefs and refuses to compromise her morals even if it means they lose Liert's help; they had gotten by before he showed up, after all. So, this actually does manage to make an impact on Liert. Also, Ray is a successful military leader...without compromising her principals. That rather fascinates Liert.
So, he actually does change...the worst thing about him is really that he doesn't care about life at all (his or others') and that he's very emotionally abusive. However, he eventually is at least willing to accept that it's illegal to randomly kill people and therefore he won't...and he stops being emotionally abusive eventually. For a number of reasons. For one thing, the reason he did it in the first place was basically fear. Unlike someone who abuses others because they enjoy it, Liert does it to protect himself; he's terrified of connecting with anyone because he feels it'll just end badly. so, he attacks everyone. Really, the only people he goes after in any serious way are the people he actually cares about (ie, Wakar and Ray). Everyone else, he doesn't CARE enough to bother hurting them.
Actually, he does that as a child, too...he repeatedly pushes Sir Wakar away because he wants to see if Wakar will leave. He feels that people will most likely abandon you, so he strives to make it happen so it's not unexpected. Basically, he wants to be in control of it. But Wakar is a rather stubborn guy himself, and very dutiful, so he sticks around. Liert ends up becoming attached to him (the guy is basically the only parental figure he has at that point), but is angry that he's attached to him, so he lashes out. His emotional stability can be...poor.
He's not really sadistic so much as...defensive. He doesn't enjoy hurting Wakar and Ray, but he sees it as his most effective defense mechanism. However, he starts to gradually change, although it gets worse before it gets better because he's so pissed off that he started changing at all...^_^;;;; He's kind of a contrary guy.
He never stops being rude and rather crude at times, but he does stop being so malicious (although if anyone threatens Ray or his children...he lashes out like whoa. He's rather defensive of his kids). So...he's a 'jerk with a heart of gold', to quote tvtropes? ^_^;;; He kind of is, though. Because, he actually is a reasonably good person at the core. He just...needs to get to the point where he feels secure enough to actually show that.
I dunno, I find him interesting to write. I don't have many characters who are quite so...well...yeah...Eridiel is borderline--he does kill rather a lot of people, but that's because he's a vampire and hunts them down as prey; he doesn't LIKE doing it, it's just that he can't stop. Also he serves Volcanon in his high-fantasy incarnation, which means he's obeying the orders of a god whose plans involve rather a large number of deaths. And he is a rather snarkily malicious person. But he's just not on the same level as Liert, because Liert is just SO over-the-top assholish. He's just...augh, he makes you want to smack him.
And now, because I have babbled on long enough yet...comparing the Insane Death Note AU characters with their Death Note alternate universe doubles!
First up: Ray and Light, because they're the easiest. *laughs* Well...they were basically designed to be very similar. They're quite similar in looks--at one point, Ray gets out of a tricky infiltration attempt gone wrong by claiming that Light is her brother, and she's traveling. The guard believes this because they look so alike, so they get out safely. Also, they're both rather intense about justice, although Ray doesn't go all batshit insane about it. She does join the revolution, though, and does a lot to really get it off the ground. She's a person who can be very charming when she wants to be, like Light, but who is very, very serious about her plans and thinks them through quite meticulously. She's also very much a leader; her troops follow her with incredible loyalty. Light gets the same kind of loyalty from the detective squad in Death Note, although that's partly because of skilled lying....^_^;;;; Ray doesn't lie unless she's in some sort of undercover situation, though. Also, she can be somewhat stern because she just takes her job so seriously. they both use death powers, too, although--in my insane AU version--the idea is that these powers must be swapped for something. Light swaps his mind (in my crazy AU, Kira is a separate entity that takes over Light); Ray swaps her body (meaning she's slowly dying, and it's very tiring to use the power because it saps her physical strength--this is why she's chronically ill during the war, because of the death power). So, they're quite similar. Oh yeah, except that Ray is a woman and Light is a guy. But that seemed rather obvious, so I forgot to mention it...*laughs*
Next: Liert and L. They were designed to be very similar in appearence, but totally opposite in personality. Well, kinda. They have similar looks, except that Liert isn't sleep-deprived (as a Diviner, he needs to recharge by sleeping, and his astral-projection ability essentially produces a sleep-like state in his body. anyway, he would quickly die of exhaustion if he used his magic AND didn't get enough sleep) and he has good posture (he was raised by soldiers, so he was taught to stand very, very straight...*laughs*). Also, he wears shoes (he couldn't really run around in combat without decent footwear, and he does a lot of traveling across rough terrain, as well). But they look pretty similar. However, Liert, although he's just as not-keen-on-people as L, deals with them a lot better superficially, because he knows how he's supposed to act (as a spy/infiltrator, he kinda has to be able to do that). He usually doesn't bother though. He's a lot more out-and-out rude than L, as well, and often says things just to start a fight, because he thinks it's interesting. Also, he doesn't really care about which side he serves initially, just as long as he's not bored (Liert is bored by life because of his extreme existentialism and nihillism). And he treats his subordinate, Sir Wakar, like crap. So, although they are intellectually equal, and visually similar, their behavior is very different, so much so that Light is rather shocked by the contrast--he initially assumes that Liert is probably a lot like L, because after all he's a lot like his double, Ray...and then Liert opens his mouth and it goes down in flames. XD
Both Ray and Liert are a lot more physically dangerous than their doubles, simply because they've been raised as soldiers during a time of war. Ray is not quite as book-smart as Light because her education wasn't as extensive, but she holds her own in debate and planning because she too is highly intelligent.
Another difference is that Liert works for Ray and is actually very loyal to her, in his own weird way, whereas Light was sort-of working for L and planning to kill him (well, Kira was planning to kill him, in my crazy AU Light wasn't...the reversal of the superior/subordinate thing still holds, though). Actually, one of the reasons Liert dislikes L so much is because he doesn't protect Light the same way Liert protects Ray; Liert sees himself as sort of a bodyguard or something, because he realizes that Ray is very much the 'face' of the revolution--if she were to die, the rebels would lose hope. So, he protects her (although she's pretty strong...but not nearly as strong as Liert, because he's kind of bizarrely powerful. Her death power could easily beat him, though, except it exhausts her to use it too much, so she has to rely on others for a lot of the combat so she can save her strength for the key battles).
So...yeah, basically I just like exploring the different-but-similar dynamic. And yes, it took me aaaaaaall of that text to say that. *laughs*
I do find Liert to be an interesting character, though...hmmm, I seem to have a penchant for screwed up relationships...and also student/mentor relationships, because I think that dynamic is cool. So, that's a lot of where Liert and Wakar come from--that sort of relationship. Eridiel and Zekiel are sort-of that dynamic as well, until Zekiel becomes a full-fledged wizard and isn't Eridiel's apprentice anymore (at which point they become a screwed up relationship...XD) I also seem to have an obsession with the whole 'saving power of love' thing, because Liert is far from the first character who begins to change because of a relationship with someone (specifically, Ray...he starts to reconsider a lot of his basic assumptions about life because of her, and ends up changing quite a bit. He didn't really do it for her, though, more like she caused him to think about it...he's the kind of guy who, upon finding his worldview irrefutably inadequate, actually does try to change it to something more accurate. ^_^;;;;)
So...yeah...need some sleep now. Also I need to stop ranting on about things no one but me is interested in...*laughs*