. . . I really hope you won't stop writing for HikaGo anytime soon because this? This ranks within the best HnG fic I've read. The characterization, tone, plot, attention to detail - everything just clicks together in a way that leaves me utterly speechless and awestruck. Wow.
I adored the way you handled the Japanese views of homosexuality. It's something I've wanted to see in a fic for a long time and you certainly delivered. Thank you.
*blushes* Thank you! Those were some really lovely compliments. And I'm glad you think the Japanese views of homosexuality worked; I felt rather uncertain, since it's very hard to reproduce another culture's views of these things.
SAGASDG. ILU.
♥ Coherent and incoherent feedback in one comment? Perfect! ^^
Recently, I read few essays about the subject - the most relevant being Male Homosexuality and Popular Culture in Modern Japan - and kept wondering how the possible Shindou/Touya relationship would actually play out, all things considering. I think you nailed it all very accurately. And now I want to know if and how they would inform their respective families, especially in Touya's case - canon makes it so clear he really respects and aims to please his father, so his disapproval would probably be disastrous. Especially since, as Touya points out, a cover-up marriage would be the easiest solution. I have hard time seeing Touya Kouyou actually disowning or doing something equally rash, but I do think he'd hope they keep it as discreet as possible and encourage the notion of a cover-up marriage. . . . and now I'm rambling. *shuts up*
Anyway, yeah. Thank you for this fic again, because. ♥
Ha, that essay is brilliant! ^^ Just to blow my own trumpet a bit, I referenced it in my essay on Hikaru no Go. And yes, it's interesting to speculate how an actual relationship would play out; I'm glad you think my take on it works.
As for Touya Kouyo, I'm increasingly coming to think that he's a surprisingly non-conventional thinker. I've been pondering this for a while, and will need to go back to the manga to check, but I agree with you, at least, that he wouldn't react by disowning his son.
And thank you for commenting, I enjoy talking about HnG to other fans.
Ooh, I loved that essay! I didn't notice the link, but, yes. I've used is as my main source on finding out about the cultural differences regarding homosexuality. Being from Finland where the society is being more and more accepting, it's fascinating to study how the society at large views and reacts to it.
He is, isn't he? Touya Kouyou is actually one of my favorite characters. I wonder why . . . I found him extremely interesting. On the surface, he's presented as extremely traditional and strict, but to me, his retirement and comments about the professional Go world at large seemed more like something akin to giving the finger. Considering how much the Japanese culture values keeping up fronts, his complete disregard and disinterest towards the full effects of his decision struck me as weird.
Yup! I just rediscovered my love for everything HikaGo about a month ago, and being the hopeless lurker I am, I've yet to really find anyone to talk and fangirl with.
Different cultural ideas of sexuality, and homosexuality in particular, are certainly interesting. In a way, I think the Japanese view is quite liberating, in that it seems they don't perceive homosexuality as a rigid identity the way we do in the west - it's something you do, not something you are.
And damn, you're making me think about Touya Kouyo... I may have to sit down and write out my thoughts on him; perhaps another essay is in the making? ^^
And there should definitely be more HnG discussions around! It's a pity that there seems to be little of it.
Hear, hear. Although I'm not sure whether I agree about the Japanese view being more liberating. It does seem like that first because they don't actively condemn and act against it, but I don't think their current way of allowing homosexual behavior as a 'hobby' or something strictly related to sex is that healthy, either. I do think homosexuality is not an identity, but refusing to see and acknowledge it creates another set of problems. I'm basing most of my assumptions on the interviews and material found here. It's an interesting book to read, I have to recommend it.
That means my job here is done! *does a victory dance* No, really. Touya Kouyou is really an unappreciated character. I find him really fascinating and I'm sad to see so little meta talk about him. I'd read that essay to death if you ever got around writing it.
*nod* I'm almost tempted to simply go and make a general meta post for more or less serious discussiong/fangirling because there is so much to discuss about HikaGo.
That's true, I agree that there are good and bad sides to the Japanese approach. For instance, being able to identify yourself as "gay" makes it easier to stand your ground against social expectations that you will marry; you have a reason and a label that will explain why you can't/won't do that. And hah, I really want to read that book! So far, though, I've only found it in electronic copies, which is too hard on the eyes...
And bah, it seems I'm writing that stupid essay. :-P It will be a week or so before it's done, though, probably.
And a general-discussion meta post is something that should happen, I think!
Exactly. Then again the fact how differently marriage and other long-term relationships are perceived gives the issue a whole new spin. If marriage is more about a mutually benefiting contract and less about expressing your sexuality and/or love and homosexual behavior is tolerated as long as it's not overt, the willingness to risk social status and 'face' is understandably lower. Too much risk, too little to gain. I think it's pretty much a status quo no-one is willing to change. I swear I had a point in there somewhere when I started that sentence.
I'd love to have a hard copy of that book as well, but it's out of stock everywhere I look. Too bad, because it's a really fascinating read with a good, objective approach.
I think I adore you for that. I love essays of any kind, but I'm hopeless when it comes to actually writing something worth reading so I'm stuck to hoping someone better at writing does it.
*nod* The only holdback I have is the possibility of it spiraling into a wankfest. Also, the fact I am a hopeless lurker but
( ... )
Given that infidelity is supposedly very common in Japan, and quite accepted, I agree, I don't think it's likely that things will change very much, there.
And it's annoying the way the good books are always impossible to find, isn't it? ^^
I do hope you won't be too disappointed when it's finished! So far, it's about half and half about the concept of the Hand of God, and Touya Kouyou.
And although I don't know the HnG fandom in any great detail, it seems largely wank-free to me. I think there's too few of us for any wank to happen, really. I say go for it! XD
*nod* I've gotten the impression the idea of a romantic marriage has been on the rise. It remains to be seen how that will affect things.
Tell me about it! I've been trying to find few books about Heian Japan but they're either out of stock or simply too expensive. It's really frustrating.
Don't worry, anything is better than nothing. I'll have to keep watch for it - mind if I friend you?
I think I will. Be sure to participate whenever it rolls around. <3
Yeah. And I gather that the younger generation of women are getting tired of the rigidity of gener roles as well, so it's interesting to see what effects that will have.
What gets to me is that increasinly, even libraries don't have hard copies any more, just the electronic kind. :-/
And friend away! I'm flattered that you want to. <3
And I certainly will participate, collective squeeing sounds like fun.
I adored the way you handled the Japanese views of homosexuality. It's something I've wanted to see in a fic for a long time and you certainly delivered. Thank you.
And now for what I really want to say:
SAGASDG. ILU. <3
Reply
SAGASDG. ILU.
♥ Coherent and incoherent feedback in one comment? Perfect! ^^
Reply
Recently, I read few essays about the subject - the most relevant being Male Homosexuality and Popular Culture in Modern Japan - and kept wondering how the possible Shindou/Touya relationship would actually play out, all things considering. I think you nailed it all very accurately. And now I want to know if and how they would inform their respective families, especially in Touya's case - canon makes it so clear he really respects and aims to please his father, so his disapproval would probably be disastrous. Especially since, as Touya points out, a cover-up marriage would be the easiest solution. I have hard time seeing Touya Kouyou actually disowning or doing something equally rash, but I do think he'd hope they keep it as discreet as possible and encourage the notion of a cover-up marriage. . . . and now I'm rambling. *shuts up*
Anyway, yeah. Thank you for this fic again, because. ♥
Reply
Reply
As for Touya Kouyo, I'm increasingly coming to think that he's a surprisingly non-conventional thinker. I've been pondering this for a while, and will need to go back to the manga to check, but I agree with you, at least, that he wouldn't react by disowning his son.
And thank you for commenting, I enjoy talking about HnG to other fans.
Reply
He is, isn't he? Touya Kouyou is actually one of my favorite characters. I wonder why . . . I found him extremely interesting. On the surface, he's presented as extremely traditional and strict, but to me, his retirement and comments about the professional Go world at large seemed more like something akin to giving the finger. Considering how much the Japanese culture values keeping up fronts, his complete disregard and disinterest towards the full effects of his decision struck me as weird.
Yup! I just rediscovered my love for everything HikaGo about a month ago, and being the hopeless lurker I am, I've yet to really find anyone to talk and fangirl with.
Reply
And damn, you're making me think about Touya Kouyo... I may have to sit down and write out my thoughts on him; perhaps another essay is in the making? ^^
And there should definitely be more HnG discussions around! It's a pity that there seems to be little of it.
Reply
That means my job here is done! *does a victory dance* No, really. Touya Kouyou is really an unappreciated character. I find him really fascinating and I'm sad to see so little meta talk about him. I'd read that essay to death if you ever got around writing it.
*nod* I'm almost tempted to simply go and make a general meta post for more or less serious discussiong/fangirling because there is so much to discuss about HikaGo.
Reply
And bah, it seems I'm writing that stupid essay. :-P It will be a week or so before it's done, though, probably.
And a general-discussion meta post is something that should happen, I think!
Reply
I'd love to have a hard copy of that book as well, but it's out of stock everywhere I look. Too bad, because it's a really fascinating read with a good, objective approach.
I think I adore you for that. I love essays of any kind, but I'm hopeless when it comes to actually writing something worth reading so I'm stuck to hoping someone better at writing does it.
*nod* The only holdback I have is the possibility of it spiraling into a wankfest. Also, the fact I am a hopeless lurker but ( ... )
Reply
And it's annoying the way the good books are always impossible to find, isn't it? ^^
I do hope you won't be too disappointed when it's finished! So far, it's about half and half about the concept of the Hand of God, and Touya Kouyou.
And although I don't know the HnG fandom in any great detail, it seems largely wank-free to me. I think there's too few of us for any wank to happen, really. I say go for it! XD
Reply
Tell me about it! I've been trying to find few books about Heian Japan but they're either out of stock or simply too expensive. It's really frustrating.
Don't worry, anything is better than nothing. I'll have to keep watch for it - mind if I friend you?
I think I will. Be sure to participate whenever it rolls around. <3
Reply
What gets to me is that increasinly, even libraries don't have hard copies any more, just the electronic kind. :-/
And friend away! I'm flattered that you want to. <3
And I certainly will participate, collective squeeing sounds like fun.
Reply
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