"I'll see you in another life, brotha."

[starryeyedmagic]

So, I've been working on this post for about a week. At first it was just going to be a few of my thoughts about the finale. And then it morphed into...lol whatever it is now. It's not really a picspam (there are more words than pics under cut) but it kind of became that. I just kept adding and adding to it. If anyone reads the whole thing

Comments

[starryeyedmagic]

Or maybe, like Desmond, she DID think it worked?
Maybe! I think when Miles heard "it worked" he only heard her last thoughts, which were of the vending machine conversation. But she definitely could have meant "There's a place where we're happy and together again" when she told Sawyer she had something important to say.

Yea, just because Sawyer/Kate were in love at one time doesn't mean it has to last forever. Like Ted/Robin were in love at one time, Bill/Sookie were in love at one time (past-tense in the books), Dawson/Joey were too. And even though I don't personally ship those pairings I would never say they weren't in love, and that it didn't mean something for their characters.

He wasn't going to suddenly switch back to Kate when she returned to the island.
Especially not after Juliet died! This whole season whenever someone said "Who will Kate choose?" it sounded crazy. Either she would be with Jack or she wouldn't be with either of them. There was no way she was getting back with Sawyer.

Although if this were another show (as in a soap opera-type show) and Juliet didn't die...lol you know they would have played up Sawyer/Kate more. That type of storyline is done so often it's practically a cliche. But thank god they didn't go there. Because Lost isn't that kind of show.

[katayla]

Yeah, that's what I meant. She wanted to tell Sawyer they were together in another place.

I think that's something that internet-crazy shippers (myself included at times, lol) miss out on sometimes. Most people don't have just one love. And falling in love doesn't mean you're going to be with that person forever. And I think it's awesome when shows (or books) explore that. I mean, most of the time they go in the opposite direction, revisiting ships that, imo, should be over with.

I mean, even with Lost, there were a couple of times in season six when they hinted at Sawyer/Kate a little more than I felt comfortable with. I didn't mind so much in season five because I thought they handled the situation fairly well. But so soon after Juliet died . . . I didn't want to see any of that. But fortunately they never at all made a serious effort to go in that direction.

Like the teen soaps constantly go back to the Joey/Dawsons, Ryan/Marissa, Dan/Serena, which tires me out! Sometimes relationships really do just become something else and never turn romantic again.

[starryeyedmagic]

haha yea, there's definitely people that just "attach" themselves to a ship in the beginning and then never waver no matter what happens character-wise. I'm sure I've done that in the past...I can't really think of an example off the top of my head though. But yea, I think it's interesting when you think the story is going to go in one direction, and then some unexpected relationship pops up. Because that happens in life sometimes.

I guess in s6 I was never really worried about Sawyer/Kate because it would just be so low for anything to happen between them at that point. I really didn't think the show would go there.

I felt more "what's going to happen" when Sawyer/Kate took Ben to Richard after he had been shot in s5. Because back then we didn't really know exactly how stable Sawyer/Juliet's relationship was yet.
And maybe that's another reason I wasn't totally on-board with the ship in the 70s. Because at the time all we knew is that they were together. But just being together doesn't immediatley convince me of epic love. I have to really see it.
So I guess it took me until the end of s5 to believe 100% that they were completely in love and their relationship was real.

[katayla]

I've been trying to think of examples for myself. It feels like most of my ships have "won." I guess that's not exactly true because . . . I mean, Logan/Veronica, Luke/Lorelai weren't really together at the end or there are the ones like Xander/Anya where someone died. But even those were still the ones you were supposed to ship so, even if they didn't technically end up "together," it doesn't feel like they "lost." I guess it's my whole canon shipping tendency. Normally I ship how the show want me to, lol.

Oh! I had a Star Trek: Voyager ship that went completely the wrong way, but that was the interference of the actor, haha. He wanted his character to hook up with the hot chick, though it really didn't make sense. But that only messed up my secondary pairing, while my OTP got married and had a baby, so it was okay. ;) And there's Lee/Kara, I guess, but that's not quite the same either . . .

I'm not sure why I fell for Sawyer/Juliet right away. Because 9 times out of 10, I'd have the same reaction as you, not quite convinced yet. But I'd been shipping them since the s4 finale . . . at first, mostly just in fun because I didn't think they'd really go there and then more seriously as they got more interaction at the beginning of season 5, so I guess I was prepared enough? And then I actually wasn't a Sawyer fan until the Juliet relationship, so I was more prepared to go with the flow than if it were a favorite character, where I'd spent a lot of time thinking about them/their relationships.

[starryeyedmagic]

Didn't Luke/Lorelai get back together in the end? I feel like I remember them kissing in the last ep?
And yea, I never thought of Logan/Veronica as being 100% over it's just...the show was canceled. So there wasn't really an official "ending".

I got the feeling Xander/Anya were over though. I mean, clearly they were the love of each other's lives at that point but if the show hypothetically went on for another season or two I think that might have been the end of them. Or not. lol idk it's hard to say what would happen. Maybe they were just setting up things being "over" because they knew how the show would end.

But I think the issue is probably more related to us being older than we were before? I know when I was like 14 all I wanted was for certain ships to end up together just because I shipped them. But now I just want good character endings. And a lot of times that coincides with a good ending for a ship I like...but sometimes it doesn't. But that's ok. Whatever makes for the most satisfying story works.

Yea, idk. I think we were probably in the same place in terms of Sawyer/Juliet at the end of s4/early s5. I did like them a lot and I wanted them to get together. And in the dock scene in Lafleur (before the time jump) I was seriously loving them. But it was just a lot for me to go from "oh snap they might kiss!" to...them being practically married. Because then it just became a totally different relationship than I was hoping for/expecting and I needed some time to adjust. idk. I got there eventually though.

[katayla]

Luke/Lorelai kissed, but I never considered them as officially back together. But then, imo, they shouldn't have gotten back together then. (Logan/Veronica probably could've, though.)

Haha, so, this is really random, but there used to be this site for Buffy shooting scripts and I'd always go and read them and the Xander/Anya conversation after they first slept together in s7 was significantly different from the aired one. The shooting script was much more clear that they were over, but they left it more open ended in the version that aired. So that always made me wonder. I'm not sure. I think they might've tried it again, but they ended pretty badly, so it might also be one of those times where it's too much for them to get back together long term. But now I'm realizing all my examples were bad ones because by the end of the show I wasn't shipping them that hard anyway, lol. They all had too much drama!

I like to think age makes a difference--and I definitely think it does for you and me--but I have plenty of friends where it doesn't seem to, lol. But yeah. And not just satisfying, but makes sense. And not just at the end of the show, but along the way, like, don't put too many roadblocks in the way and don't ignore serious issues just to get them back together. I have a lot of ships I've lost interest in because, while I still think they will/should get together in the end, the journey isn't working anymore.

Yeah, I can definitely understand that. I guess I didn't have a ton of expectations at all about their relationship, which can often be a good thing.

[starryeyedmagic]

TBH, I really don't remember what happened in the Gilmore Girls finale. I remember L/L kissed and Rory was going to get married but then...didn't...or something? And she got some awesome job? Seriously that's all I remember. haha the last 2 seasons were just really bad.

Hmm that's interesting about Xander/Anya. I kind of liked that they were over. It weirdly made me ship them more? idk, it's hard to explain. But I just found their relationship more "interesting" for some reason.

And not just satisfying, but makes sense
Oh definitely. Like have you watched Glee lately? lol none of the ships really make much sense so I mostly don't even care anymore.
I just think that even if it's a ship I'm not that into, as long as it's a decent story I'll be fine with it. idk, that's more important to me now.

If I just wanted to see people make schmoopy eyes at each other and make out in a story where nothing at all makes sense I can just watch a daytime soap. haha.

[katayla]

She went on Obama's campaign trail! Annnnd . . . that exhausts my knowledge of the GG finale, lol. Oh, yeah, and Logan proposed, but she said no, so that was the end of the relationship? Although I seem to think that was an ep or two before the finale?

I think it's always nice to have a relationship feel unforced. Like, how can I really get that worked up over Chuck/Blair's breakup? I know they're going to get back together. By making Xander/Anya over, it kinda actually opened up more possibilities.

I'm a couple of episode behind on Glee, but YEAH. I'm not even shipping anyone in that, "Well, I know it's going to happen, so might as well" way anymore. And it's a shame, really, because it seems like the kind of show where you could/should care wildly about ships.

Haha, I wonder how much satisfaction I'd get out of soaps couples? I was always afraid they'd suck me in, haha.

[starryeyedmagic]

Oh right! I do remember her going on Obama's campaign trail now. Yea, I think you're right about the Logan proposal being slightly before the finale. I remember liking them a lot in s5 and then after that I found them annoying. But by s6 I wasn't getting a ton of enjoyment out of the show in general so...

I think what makes me the most sad about Glee is that I think it had the potential to be a really great show. The cast is certainly crazy talented musically, and most of them have the comedic chops. But all the stories are so ridiculous/preachy/over-the top that at some point every character comes off seeming obnoxious.
Maybe if the storylines were more simple it'd be the easiest show in the world to love. I can't even 100% hate it now because it has it's moments...even though at this point I probably should hate it.
LOL I'd still watching anything Lea Michele/Jon Groff do together though. But I'd have said that 3/4 years ago too.

Haha, I wonder how much satisfaction I'd get out of soaps couples? I was always afraid they'd suck me in, haha.
lol it's kind of...a different animal? Like it's so bad that it somewhat stops being annoying and just becomes...amusing?

I think soap watching is literally ALL about shipping. Like there is no point otherwise.
I still follow this one soap couple on Youtube (SHAME. WHATEVER. I DON'T CARE) and they'll only be on maybe twice a week and I'll just watch the 7minute clip where they'll usually talk about something hilariously ridiculous but then they'll be cute and make out and I'll smile and you know what? That's mindless entertainment.

Basically it's bad fanfic come to life. With make out sessions that can literally last for weeks.

With that said, I haven't watched a full soap opera episode from start to finish in YEARS because they're usually painfully bad when taken as a whole. But if you follow 1 ship and just watch the whole thing on Youtube, I find that fun. In a terrible teen novel/I'm literally losing my brain cells by watching this kind of way.
I like that you can sometimes type in a random soap couple from like 1992 and then their entire story from the first time they meet to the time when one of them died by falling down an elevator shaft is just there.

[katayla]

I still liked them (I think? I wasn't a huge fan of the show at that point either). Not enough to want them to get married, but I kinda wanted the show to end with them together.

Honestly, I'm probably not going to keep Glee next season. I'm not even enjoying most of the music anymore. But, yeah, that really is the frustrating thing about it. There are (or at least used to be) these little moments that make me go, "Yes! THAT! That is a show I would love." But the show as a whole just doesn't work for me. And some of the ways they deal with the "issues" just makes me so uncomfortable.

Haha! I should just look up a soap couple on YouTube the next time I'm in the mood for cheesy/overly-dramatic romance.