early Tudor/medieval Fashion or Not?
Ok, after a bit of work, I have the two images online now so people can see what's caught my imagination. I will be crossposting this to a few places, so I apologize if you get bombarded by my questions.
click on each image to see a larger version.
So, is this a Tudor fashion style that only lasted a few years?
I've been seeing shorter gown skirts over long kirtle skirts in a couple of Tudor images. I believe Jane Malcolm-Davies has one of her effigy images that is in a shorter over long skirt style. I am too tired to go look it up, but I believe it is there. (Just checked, and her server is down for me. will check back later). I knew of the image from the illumination, which is why I scanned it in (the one on the left). Another from an illumination is here: Detail of St. Nicholas.
Both images above are from 1514. Both are of English subjects, but painted from outside of England. One (left) is a detail from an illumination of Mary Tudor (the French Queen) and King Louis XII of France (illuminator unknown). This is one of the ladies in waiting. The other (right) is a side panel of an English subject, a merchant tailor named Paul Withypool. The artist is Italian, Antonio da Solario. This is from the side panel of the triptych with St. Ursula (according to one web site description of the triptych).
The image of the lady in waiting to Mary is what started me on the hunt, ever since I saw it in one of my history books on the Tudors a few years ago.
Is the image of St. Ursula complete fantasy? I have been warned images of saints often are. Is the style based on medieval styles? Since I don't know much about medieval styles, could it have been a style seen in earlier medieval images? Anyone know?
I am smitten by the St. Ursula image for some reason, and want to reproduce it for SCA wearing (or Faire, if it is appropriate). But me, the historical costumer, am unwilling to break "the rules" and get laughed at, for wearing what did not actually get worn during the Pre-17th century time period. And while a part of me is thinking of making & wearing it anyway, I would prefer if I can somehow document it. And if it is medieval, and not Tudor, that's ok, too.
Any suggestions, other images, and comments are welcome.
click on each image to see a larger version.
So, is this a Tudor fashion style that only lasted a few years?
I've been seeing shorter gown skirts over long kirtle skirts in a couple of Tudor images. I believe Jane Malcolm-Davies has one of her effigy images that is in a shorter over long skirt style. I am too tired to go look it up, but I believe it is there. (Just checked, and her server is down for me. will check back later). I knew of the image from the illumination, which is why I scanned it in (the one on the left). Another from an illumination is here: Detail of St. Nicholas.
Both images above are from 1514. Both are of English subjects, but painted from outside of England. One (left) is a detail from an illumination of Mary Tudor (the French Queen) and King Louis XII of France (illuminator unknown). This is one of the ladies in waiting. The other (right) is a side panel of an English subject, a merchant tailor named Paul Withypool. The artist is Italian, Antonio da Solario. This is from the side panel of the triptych with St. Ursula (according to one web site description of the triptych).
The image of the lady in waiting to Mary is what started me on the hunt, ever since I saw it in one of my history books on the Tudors a few years ago.
Is the image of St. Ursula complete fantasy? I have been warned images of saints often are. Is the style based on medieval styles? Since I don't know much about medieval styles, could it have been a style seen in earlier medieval images? Anyone know?
I am smitten by the St. Ursula image for some reason, and want to reproduce it for SCA wearing (or Faire, if it is appropriate). But me, the historical costumer, am unwilling to break "the rules" and get laughed at, for wearing what did not actually get worn during the Pre-17th century time period. And while a part of me is thinking of making & wearing it anyway, I would prefer if I can somehow document it. And if it is medieval, and not Tudor, that's ok, too.
Any suggestions, other images, and comments are welcome.