I agree that it would be good for a third party to become viable, but I don't think this is the election for that - same with 2004 and 2000. A friend (who is definitely normally in the third party category) sent out a big e-mail begging her friends to please not vote 3rd party this time. I'm not going to launch into the whole argument for why this isn't a good time to go that route, but she sent some articles along with it that I figure I might as well share:
(Also honestly it's my opinion that the best way to get a viable third party would be to start from the bottom - local politics, the state legislature, etc. - and then move upwards once you manage to get them established there. That said, of course, I'm a diehard democrat and always will be - but that doesn't mean I'm not more progressive than a lot of my party).
Meh, I'm pretty sure every election will be "too important to vote 3rd party". The fact is if someone REALLY doesn't like either candidate, I don't think "voting for the lesser evil" is the right thing to do. Now, if they like a major candidate but just don't agree 100% (like, only 90%) then yeah, suck it up and vote for the one who you mostly agree with. Anyway, I imagine 3rd party will benefit Obama, cuz most republicans I know are pretty fed up with their party but don't want to vote for "bigger government" (so would vote libertarian)
You can believe that all you want, but we've never been in as bad a position as we are right now. Yes, all of the elections since you've been old enough to vote have been like that, but it was not the case before, and it will not be the case sometime in the future. Voting for the person you dislike less is completely reasonable; it's a vote against the person who will most work against your interests. You're never going to agree with someone 100% of the time, or even 90%. And, well, frankly, a hell of a lot more than just some tiny % of people voting third party is going to have to be done to get a viable third party - the people who vote third party don't even vote for the same third party - so as far as I can tell, voting third party isn't doing much of anything at all. Again, you clearly disagree, and I've found that talking to people does not change their minds if they've already decided what they think, but if you think this election is not more important than the ones we've had when the country wasn't going to hell, then you're
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I never said you should only vote when it will matter, I said there are times when the election is too important to vote third party, and that just because those elections have taken place since you were old enough to vote doesn't mean that's "always" the case. And, um, I don't recall asking when things were "worse." I actually have no idea what you're talking about
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And, um, I don't recall asking when things were "worse." I actually have no idea what you're talking about.
Eeeh, sorry, I was responding to your comment that "You can believe that all you want, but we've never been in as bad a position as we are right now." I probably misinterpreted it.
Just because those elections have taken place since you were old enough to vote doesn't mean that's "always" the case. I hadn't really thought of that, but thinking of history it seems like most presidential elections in recent history were pretty important? There was usually something major going on.
You vote for a third party candidate. That person will not win. You have thrown away your vote and influenced nothing. I think we're at an impasse on this point; I respectfully disagree that there is zero influence. I don't believe 3rd parties *expect* to win, either, but votes and support encourage them to know when they're doing something right.
If you don't like either candidate, but one of them will represent your best interests more than
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I agree; voting for a third party is definitely much better than not voting - it wasn't clear to me that that was your point. I think the people you know who vote third party are probably (possibly) very different from the ones I know who vote third party, also - my friends are green party types, and it sounds like maybe yours are libertarians. Since libertarians can legitimately be in the middle, and green party types are farther left than the democrats, among my friends, the question is how to convince them to vote democratic this time and go back to voting green (or whatever) next time, whereas for yours it sounds like it's more a question of voting at all
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^-^ Yeah, for us small government types *both* parties seem to be fairly pro government interference :P I was going to say "#%#$%-it I'm voting third party this election!" BUT then Obama got the nod and I love Obama anyway because he seems like an inspiration leader, as well as a pragmatist who will do what's best and find common ground. So I kind of trust that any government programs he implements will be beneficial and efficient. W00t, well even if I'm not in a swing state he's the first politician I've given $$ to... $50 so far. And I'll probably do some Indiana canvasing or calls before time is up :)
And, ahhh, sorry I'm going to disable comments for a bit DX Don't mind the rabid libertarians...
I love this argument. Voting for a third party is a waste of a vote, only because everyone else is worried that they are "Throwing their votes away" because people tell them they are. If people weren't so chickenshit, they would vote for who they WANTED. And if people weren't so ignorant, they would do a little research online, rather than staying glued to CNN to recieved their daily dose of propoganda.
Thanks, I'm chickenshit and ignorant, that's awesome. I was having a conversation with Adie, and I really don't care what you think, but it's interesting that you respond to an opinion that runs contrary to yours by belittling it and insulting the person who stated it. Also, you don't know jack shit about where I get my news, but I'll give you a clue: it's not fucking CNN. Get over yourself.
Beyond the Conventions by Norman Solomon http://www.huffingtonpost.com/norman-solomon/beyond-the-conventions_b_123953.html
Progressives and Obama: The Clash of Narratives http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/08/18/11047/
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Now, if they like a major candidate but just don't agree 100% (like, only 90%) then yeah, suck it up and vote for the one who you mostly agree with.
Anyway, I imagine 3rd party will benefit Obama, cuz most republicans I know are pretty fed up with their party but don't want to vote for "bigger government" (so would vote libertarian)
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Eeeh, sorry, I was responding to your comment that "You can believe that all you want, but we've never been in as bad a position as we are right now." I probably misinterpreted it.
Just because those elections have taken place since you were old enough to vote doesn't mean that's "always" the case.
I hadn't really thought of that, but thinking of history it seems like most presidential elections in recent history were pretty important? There was usually something major going on.
You vote for a third party candidate. That person will not win. You have thrown away your vote and influenced nothing. I think we're at an impasse on this point; I respectfully disagree that there is zero influence. I don't believe 3rd parties *expect* to win, either, but votes and support encourage them to know when they're doing something right.
If you don't like either candidate, but one of them will represent your best interests more than ( ... )
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I was going to say "#%#$%-it I'm voting third party this election!" BUT then Obama got the nod and I love Obama anyway because he seems like an inspiration leader, as well as a pragmatist who will do what's best and find common ground. So I kind of trust that any government programs he implements will be beneficial and efficient. W00t, well even if I'm not in a swing state he's the first politician I've given $$ to... $50 so far. And I'll probably do some Indiana canvasing or calls before time is up :)
And, ahhh, sorry I'm going to disable comments for a bit DX Don't mind the rabid libertarians...
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Also, you don't know jack shit about where I get my news, but I'll give you a clue: it's not fucking CNN.
Get over yourself.
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