I never said you should only vote when it will matter, I said there are times when the election is too important to vote third party, and that just because those elections have taken place since you were old enough to vote doesn't mean that's "always" the case. And, um, I don't recall asking when things were "worse." I actually have no idea what you're talking about. Look. You vote for a third party candidate. That person will not win. You have thrown away your vote and influenced nothing. If you don't like either candidate, but one of them will represent your best interests more than the other, or even NOT go AGAINST your interests more than the other, then you vote for that person, because one of those people will actually win. If you can't do the political math, I can't explain it any more clearly. And yeah, I'm coming from the incredibly biased perspective of someone who was raised around politics my entire life, has actually worked on political campaigns, and is surrounded by political junkies. So it's always been easy for me to get a clear picture of local and state-level candidates, because I've met them all and heard them speak. However, it turns out that at the local political level, anyone can meet the candidates, see them speak, read up on them, and look at their voting records. It's really really easy and it's something people our age just don't seem to understand.
And, um, I don't recall asking when things were "worse." I actually have no idea what you're talking about.
Eeeh, sorry, I was responding to your comment that "You can believe that all you want, but we've never been in as bad a position as we are right now." I probably misinterpreted it.
Just because those elections have taken place since you were old enough to vote doesn't mean that's "always" the case. I hadn't really thought of that, but thinking of history it seems like most presidential elections in recent history were pretty important? There was usually something major going on.
You vote for a third party candidate. That person will not win. You have thrown away your vote and influenced nothing. I think we're at an impasse on this point; I respectfully disagree that there is zero influence. I don't believe 3rd parties *expect* to win, either, but votes and support encourage them to know when they're doing something right.
If you don't like either candidate, but one of them will represent your best interests more than the other, or even NOT go AGAINST your interests more than the other, then you vote for that person, because one of those people will actually win. I do understand; from my POV though it depends how different the candidates appear to you. There are plenty of times democrats and republicans seem more similar than not. It's a question of degree... and honestly with (as you said) the issue that voting 3rd party is perceived as "throwing the vote away" I think most would have to disagree/dislike the main candidates pretty strongly to vote 3rd party. Maybe I can phrase what I'm trying to say a little more clearly; given the option of NOT VOTING and VOTING 3RD PARTY, I think the latter is a much better choice. I'm not trying to encourage people who are thinking of voting for a major party to vote 3rd party (unless they're voting for mccain... ;D ) but rather for people who would say "I'm going to sit this one out" to at least vote 3rd party.
And yeah, I'm coming from the incredibly biased perspective of someone who was raised around politics my entire life, has actually worked on political campaigns, and is surrounded by political junkies. That sounds pretty cool! I've been surrounded by... fairly hardcore conservatives, family-wise XP As an internet junkie though, in the past I've felt it was hard to find accurate info on local politicians (national politics have some great sites now). But that's changing; yay! I agree people need to be more involved with local politics, myself included.
I agree; voting for a third party is definitely much better than not voting - it wasn't clear to me that that was your point. I think the people you know who vote third party are probably (possibly) very different from the ones I know who vote third party, also - my friends are green party types, and it sounds like maybe yours are libertarians. Since libertarians can legitimately be in the middle, and green party types are farther left than the democrats, among my friends, the question is how to convince them to vote democratic this time and go back to voting green (or whatever) next time, whereas for yours it sounds like it's more a question of voting at all. One thing: "There are plenty of times democrats and republicans seem more similar than not." - that might be the way it seems to you, but honestly, from my perspective, they are incredibly far apart. I mean, neither group is as far left as I am, really, but the distinctions are clear. I know other people who feel that way, and I think it's a question of perspective most of the time. Plus, you know, raised by a politician, so. It does mean the most effort I had to put in to figure out whom to vote for was to ask my mom what the different candidates were like, if I hadn't met them already. On the flip side, this is my first year not voting in the town where I grew up, so it's going to be really weird, and from here on out I'm going to have to do my own research on the candidates. Boo. It's nice to hear that you're someone who isn't usually a fan of the major candidates and is a fan of Obama's, though. I really, really hope he's been able to energize enough people like you (young and / or independent) to pull this one out. Except, hopefully in swing states (I'm in one now!)
^-^ Yeah, for us small government types *both* parties seem to be fairly pro government interference :P I was going to say "#%#$%-it I'm voting third party this election!" BUT then Obama got the nod and I love Obama anyway because he seems like an inspiration leader, as well as a pragmatist who will do what's best and find common ground. So I kind of trust that any government programs he implements will be beneficial and efficient. W00t, well even if I'm not in a swing state he's the first politician I've given $$ to... $50 so far. And I'll probably do some Indiana canvasing or calls before time is up :)
And, ahhh, sorry I'm going to disable comments for a bit DX Don't mind the rabid libertarians...
I love this argument. Voting for a third party is a waste of a vote, only because everyone else is worried that they are "Throwing their votes away" because people tell them they are. If people weren't so chickenshit, they would vote for who they WANTED. And if people weren't so ignorant, they would do a little research online, rather than staying glued to CNN to recieved their daily dose of propoganda.
Thanks, I'm chickenshit and ignorant, that's awesome. I was having a conversation with Adie, and I really don't care what you think, but it's interesting that you respond to an opinion that runs contrary to yours by belittling it and insulting the person who stated it. Also, you don't know jack shit about where I get my news, but I'll give you a clue: it's not fucking CNN. Get over yourself.
Look. You vote for a third party candidate. That person will not win. You have thrown away your vote and influenced nothing. If you don't like either candidate, but one of them will represent your best interests more than the other, or even NOT go AGAINST your interests more than the other, then you vote for that person, because one of those people will actually win. If you can't do the political math, I can't explain it any more clearly.
And yeah, I'm coming from the incredibly biased perspective of someone who was raised around politics my entire life, has actually worked on political campaigns, and is surrounded by political junkies. So it's always been easy for me to get a clear picture of local and state-level candidates, because I've met them all and heard them speak. However, it turns out that at the local political level, anyone can meet the candidates, see them speak, read up on them, and look at their voting records. It's really really easy and it's something people our age just don't seem to understand.
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Eeeh, sorry, I was responding to your comment that "You can believe that all you want, but we've never been in as bad a position as we are right now." I probably misinterpreted it.
Just because those elections have taken place since you were old enough to vote doesn't mean that's "always" the case.
I hadn't really thought of that, but thinking of history it seems like most presidential elections in recent history were pretty important? There was usually something major going on.
You vote for a third party candidate. That person will not win. You have thrown away your vote and influenced nothing. I think we're at an impasse on this point; I respectfully disagree that there is zero influence. I don't believe 3rd parties *expect* to win, either, but votes and support encourage them to know when they're doing something right.
If you don't like either candidate, but one of them will represent your best interests more than the other, or even NOT go AGAINST your interests more than the other, then you vote for that person, because one of those people will actually win.
I do understand; from my POV though it depends how different the candidates appear to you. There are plenty of times democrats and republicans seem more similar than not. It's a question of degree... and honestly with (as you said) the issue that voting 3rd party is perceived as "throwing the vote away" I think most would have to disagree/dislike the main candidates pretty strongly to vote 3rd party.
Maybe I can phrase what I'm trying to say a little more clearly; given the option of NOT VOTING and VOTING 3RD PARTY, I think the latter is a much better choice. I'm not trying to encourage people who are thinking of voting for a major party to vote 3rd party (unless they're voting for mccain... ;D ) but rather for people who would say "I'm going to sit this one out" to at least vote 3rd party.
And yeah, I'm coming from the incredibly biased perspective of someone who was raised around politics my entire life, has actually worked on political campaigns, and is surrounded by political junkies.
That sounds pretty cool! I've been surrounded by... fairly hardcore conservatives, family-wise XP
As an internet junkie though, in the past I've felt it was hard to find accurate info on local politicians (national politics have some great sites now). But that's changing; yay! I agree people need to be more involved with local politics, myself included.
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One thing: "There are plenty of times democrats and republicans seem more similar than not." - that might be the way it seems to you, but honestly, from my perspective, they are incredibly far apart. I mean, neither group is as far left as I am, really, but the distinctions are clear. I know other people who feel that way, and I think it's a question of perspective most of the time. Plus, you know, raised by a politician, so. It does mean the most effort I had to put in to figure out whom to vote for was to ask my mom what the different candidates were like, if I hadn't met them already. On the flip side, this is my first year not voting in the town where I grew up, so it's going to be really weird, and from here on out I'm going to have to do my own research on the candidates. Boo.
It's nice to hear that you're someone who isn't usually a fan of the major candidates and is a fan of Obama's, though. I really, really hope he's been able to energize enough people like you (young and / or independent) to pull this one out. Except, hopefully in swing states (I'm in one now!)
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I was going to say "#%#$%-it I'm voting third party this election!" BUT then Obama got the nod and I love Obama anyway because he seems like an inspiration leader, as well as a pragmatist who will do what's best and find common ground. So I kind of trust that any government programs he implements will be beneficial and efficient. W00t, well even if I'm not in a swing state he's the first politician I've given $$ to... $50 so far. And I'll probably do some Indiana canvasing or calls before time is up :)
And, ahhh, sorry I'm going to disable comments for a bit DX Don't mind the rabid libertarians...
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Also, you don't know jack shit about where I get my news, but I'll give you a clue: it's not fucking CNN.
Get over yourself.
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