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Greetings from the Two Tree Hotel in Atlanta! I finally got scheduled to book a MEPS trip to take my EDPT test in order to qualify for the Computer Systems Programming AFSC. Yeah, I was ballsy enough to pack my laptop. I don't intend to attempt using it at MEPS tomorrow, but I figured I would have time to study some basic Algebra today before testing tomorrow. I was wrong. I was busy hanging out with my MEPS trip amigos. My company this trip was an Air Force applicant, Cameron, and two Navy guys. All of them were still in High School. I felt old. At least I was able to give them some pointers on what to expect from MEPS. Seeing as this was my third trip and all. This EDPT test has me worried. They expect you to complete some Algebra without a calculator. Using scratch is cool and all, but with an average of 40 seconds per question you don't have much time for figuring.
What I did have time to use my laptop for today was a live chat conversation with a recruiter from Airforce.com . See, there were three things that were on my mind on the drive up here that I needed to look into. First off, while I was watching Sgt. McDaniel's boss give the new guys their MEPS briefing he mentioned something that caught my attention. He said "Don't sweat it if something goes wrong with your job listing. Just pick five and get it over with, and we can edit your list easily when you get back here." I was like, WHAT?! I had wanted to withdraw Air Traffic Control from my list at some point, because I heard the washout rate for that tech school was 60%. I asked Sgt. Radford to do that for me, and he said you were not allowed to take away from your list. And here was his superior telling some newbies otherwise. Something else had been bothering me. Last Tuesday's PT fiasco overshadowed something that Sgt. Royster (Radford's substitute) had said to me. I was the first one there, and he was making conversation asking if I had any extra jobs to list. I didn't. He then asked if I had booked any mechanical jobs. I hadn't and wasn't interested. He made a pitch about how mechanical jobs were not so bad, and they would get you into the Air Force. He then told me that his office is just down the hall from the guy who oversees the local recruiters and his superior had told him that some DEPers were about to get discharged because they weren't picking mechanical jobs. Tha fuck you say, sir? That is messed up. Radford has told me earlier on in the game that I was free to be patient and wait on the jobs I wanted. Ahhh, the confusion.
I was feeling frustrated by the fact that this was the fifth job drop I've been in that yielded no results. There was a hand-full of jobs I've requested that I could enjoy doing, but the Air Force is having a difficult time meeting my needs. I begin to wonder if I would ever get my ship date. It seems as though the longer in the Air Force I've been, the more I've had to readjust my expectations and settle for less. When I think of the Air Force, I can't help but get a sense of dread. Now with all this talk of "mechanical or GTFO", I wonder if I'm wasting my time here if they're just going to kick me out or force me to be a miserable grease monkey.
Well, then I began to think of the Coast Guard. There's so much about the Coast Guard that resonated with me. Better uniforms, easier deployment area, and a mission I have no moral qualms over. That's when I remembered something. Part of the reason I moved over to the Air Force in the first place is because P.O. Roberts said that he couldn't recruit anybody until August. I thought, "Meh, I've come this far with my paperwork. I can lateral over to the Air Force and be long gone by then." Needless to say, this has not happened. In fact, I may not be able to leave until next summer if this keeps up. Who knew finding a job in the service would be this hard. That's when I remembered one of the selling points of the Coast Guard. You don't have to sign up for a job when you join. In fact, they encourage you to be a nobody for a period so you can make an informed decision when you make up your mind. You are then put on a waiting list for that tech school. Here's the kicker: all while you are still in service making rank, getting paid, and earning that GI Bill. The Air Force simply cannot compare to that.
So I think to myself: what good am I doing in the Air Force DEP twiddling my thumbs, waiting around only to get kicked out months down the line? They're compiling their lists for who goes in October now, and if I jump I can make it. Hell, I may even ship out long before I could now with the current state of the Air Force. It should be easy to quit the Air Force DEP. They keep telling us that being in the Air Force is a privilege, and this morning Sgt. McDaniel's superior told the newbies that if they don't like the job opportunities available they can join another branch. The Air Force forums also say that the Air Force is shrinking, not expanding. So if you aren't willing to take one for the team and conform to the Air Force's job constraints, expect a pre-mature discharge. All this had made the idea of going back Coast Guard very tempting.
So this afternoon I had a conversation with a recruiter over their Live Chat function. Apologies in advance, this guy's name was also Chris. I'll just punch his responses up with italics. That seems to be the scholarly thing to do.
Please wait for a site operator to respond.
All operators are currently assisting others. Thanks for your patience. An operator will be with you shortly.
All operators are currently assisting others. Thanks for your patience. An operator will be with you shortly.
Hello, this is'Chris', what can I do for you?
Chris: If I voluntarily drop out of the Air Force DEP, will I be barred from joining the Air Force for the rest of my life?
Chris: Please be patient, and do not disconnect, I'll be right with you.
Chris: If you have a reason, that is out of your control, like a medical condition or something, no.
Chris: What if it were unexcused?
Chris: Then you probably would have a hard time getting recruiter to ever work you again, but you will need to discuss this with your recruiter.
Chris: Understandable. I've got another question.
Chris: Sure.
Chris: If you listed an AFSC on your job list, and you currently have not booked a job, can you edit your list and remove one (provided that you still have the minimum 5).
Chris: Yes, as long as you have not booked a job yet, then you can add and take away from your list, through your recruiter, who will coordinate this with the job counselors at the MEPS. You do still need to have the minimum number of choices.
Chris: What should I do if my current DE leader has told me otherwise?
Chris: *DEP leader
Chris: What is a DEP leader?
Chris: Huh. Uh, the recruiter in charge of my DEP flight?
Chris: I had a strange experience happen where I was transferred to another recruiter's DEP for convenience purposes, but I still keep in contact with my original recruiter. So I call him my DEP leader to keep them separate.
Chris: Is this a different person than the recruiter who did all your paperwork and sent you to the MEPS?
Chris: Yes. I'm in my current DEP flight for job listing purposes only. I was told that I would have a much better chance at booking jobs with that recruiter than the one I started with.
Chris: Bottom line, you get to make the choices, not the recruiter, so if you want to change your choices and the recruiter doesn't wish to assist you, then ask to speak to his supervisor, if you need to get your parents involved, then do so.
Chris: Ok, that makes sense. I've got a similar question.
Chris: I've been told that I might be discharged from my DEP flight because I haven't listed any Mechanical Area jobs. It is my understanding that the majority of the jobs available now are Mechanical, and to insist on the other three areas is "wasting the recruiter's time". Can I be discharged for this?
Chris: Standby.
Chris: We are not aware of any such policy, it is my belief that the recruiter is just trying to help folks get into the AF, we only have certain jobs we need filled each year. But after speaking to the folks at headquarters, It is still 5 jobs and one area, either General, Electrical, or mechanical.
Chris: Ok. How up-to-date do you suppose headquarters is about the "one area" detail? When I picked jobs at my MEPS liaison in May he told me the current policy was 5 jobs and two open areas.
Chris: Thank you for waiting. I'll be with you in just a moment.
Chris: I'm sorry for the delay. I'll be right with you.
Chris: Sure thing. Take your time.
Chris: The field may have a more stringent policy in place, they can do that. We list the minimum to apply, at this level. So, had you been told before you processed that you had to list a mechanical job, you would have do so, but apparently, you were not, so they cannot kick you out of DEP, unless they know without a doubt, they cannot get you in the AF, no sense wasting your time, correct?
Chris: But can they remove me from my DEP flight, without telling me this at any time before I signed up?
Chris: If you are released by the AF, because we do not have any of your choices available, then you would be able to apply at a later date.
Chris: Huh. I've just trying to find the truth between being told two conflicting pieces of information. My DEP leader's substitute mentioned that people like me may be discharged for not striking mechanical, but my original recruiter this morning told me now to worry about it because I have two open areas on my job list.
Chris: What are your choices?
Chris: Just curious?
Chris: The highest Open Area General, and the highest Open Area Electronic.
Chris: I was not interested in mechanical or administrative, so I choose those two.
Chris: Please be patient, and do not disconnect, I'll be right with you.
Chris: And your job choices?
Chris: I have seven right now. I have the list somewhere, standby.
Chris: Thank you for waiting. I'll be with you in just a moment.
Chris: Cyber Transport, Cyber Surety, Ground Radar Systems, Air Traffic Control, Client Systems, Cyber Systems Operations, Avionics Test Station and Components
Chris: Chris, don't worry about getting DEP discharged or changing your jobs, you have listed plenty of good jobs! Stay in contact with your original recruiter and if they DEP discharge you, before one year in the DEP, please let us know, ok.
Chris: Alright, sure thing. My dilemma I was toying with was that I would currently be in a favorable position with another branch if I were to drop out now. It would be a better alternative than to be discharged a few months down the road and have missed my chance with the other service. Though, given what you've told me I'll hold off on that idea.
Chris: I'm sorry for the delay. I'll be right with you.
Chris: The other services will always need warm bodies, the AF is the hardest to join, but the best to serve in, just go to your local VFW and ask any retired veteran! lol
Chris: I've got one last question for you. At what point would your decide to book you for an Open Area, instead of waiting on your individual jobs to show up?
Chris: *What point would your recruiter/his supervisor decide
Chris: Please be patient, and do not disconnect, I'll be right with you.
Chris: I'm sorry for the delay. I'll be right with you.
Chris: This is a bit more complicated, in a nutshell, every month, the AF releases so many jobs and so many areas to be booked, In simple terms, the AF looks at your first choice and if there is a match, you get booked, this is repeated for all your choices, in order of preference until you book a job. Now you also are ranked with other folks, in the DEP, generally, not always, folks in the DEP longest, will book first.
Chris: If you get booked an area, you will choose your job in basic, but only from that area.
Chris: Ok, so the AFSC for an Open Area is distributed in the same way the other jobs are? I figured my recruiter would get frustrated at some point and assign me a ship date with an Open Area.
Chris: The recruiter has nothing to do with your job reservation, it is done way above his or her heads!
Chris: So the process for an open area is the same for individual jobs? It's simply an AFSC they weigh against your list, and it either comes up or it doesn't. Correct?
Chris: Correct, whichever comes open first, is what you get booked.
Chris: Ok, that makes much more sense. I've never been properly explained that before. That concludes whatever questions I had about the Air Force at this time. Thanks for your help, Chris. Goodbye.
Chris: Your welcome, unfortunately, a lot of recruiters are not the versed in job reservations, becuase that is not their job. It is the job of the job counselors are the MEPS, but they don't always have a lot of time to explain all the details, but I'm glad you can rest easier now!
Chris: Sure thing, but I gotta run. Thanks for your help.
Chris: Thank you for visiting airforce.com and our Live chat. Best wishes.
Chat session has been terminated by the site operator.
Heh, guy was so busy he had to keep macroing me that he wasn't ignoring me. They probably pay him to multitask between windows. So it turns out that "DEP Leader" is a goddamn liar. I should have known. Whenever he seems really happy to say something, that's probably his tell. I thought he looked suspicious when he first mentioned it to me. I sure as hell won't be going to him anymore for information or favors. That ass only wants to make his record look productive so he can get his promotion, and apparently he doesn't care what he has to fluff to make mission. Isn't that completely contradictory to the recruiters creed framed up in his office?
So I'm still undecided on what to do. I think I'm going to plan an emergency trip to Atlanta later this week and ask a Coast Guard recruiter what the current state of affairs are. If he can be straight forward about his list, whether he still has room, and the relative ease of lateraling over I may move this project from 'passing thought' to 'serious plan'. It's risky. It's insane. I will most definitely burn some bridges here with both the Air Force, and my dad. Heh. I can hear it now. "WHAT?! After seven months of work you're going to wreck it all, go back to square one, all because the Coast Guard guy 'thinks he can help'. You were already in the DEP set to go! This is Bullshit!! ...I hate you. Stop living at my house at your nearest inconvenience."
It's been said that when you're making tough decisions to always "follow your heart", even if it leads you to impulsive stupid mistakes. But what feels right is to take my chances and follow my dreams. I've still got a lot of time to think it over. I think I can budget some time to think in the MEPS lobby after I stumble through the EDPT... which I am probably sabotaging by staying up so late for. Revelry is at 0350 tomorrow and it's 0006 now. This does not bode well for my eye-lids.
I guess I'll sleep on it. While I still can.
What I did have time to use my laptop for today was a live chat conversation with a recruiter from Airforce.com . See, there were three things that were on my mind on the drive up here that I needed to look into. First off, while I was watching Sgt. McDaniel's boss give the new guys their MEPS briefing he mentioned something that caught my attention. He said "Don't sweat it if something goes wrong with your job listing. Just pick five and get it over with, and we can edit your list easily when you get back here." I was like, WHAT?! I had wanted to withdraw Air Traffic Control from my list at some point, because I heard the washout rate for that tech school was 60%. I asked Sgt. Radford to do that for me, and he said you were not allowed to take away from your list. And here was his superior telling some newbies otherwise. Something else had been bothering me. Last Tuesday's PT fiasco overshadowed something that Sgt. Royster (Radford's substitute) had said to me. I was the first one there, and he was making conversation asking if I had any extra jobs to list. I didn't. He then asked if I had booked any mechanical jobs. I hadn't and wasn't interested. He made a pitch about how mechanical jobs were not so bad, and they would get you into the Air Force. He then told me that his office is just down the hall from the guy who oversees the local recruiters and his superior had told him that some DEPers were about to get discharged because they weren't picking mechanical jobs. Tha fuck you say, sir? That is messed up. Radford has told me earlier on in the game that I was free to be patient and wait on the jobs I wanted. Ahhh, the confusion.
I was feeling frustrated by the fact that this was the fifth job drop I've been in that yielded no results. There was a hand-full of jobs I've requested that I could enjoy doing, but the Air Force is having a difficult time meeting my needs. I begin to wonder if I would ever get my ship date. It seems as though the longer in the Air Force I've been, the more I've had to readjust my expectations and settle for less. When I think of the Air Force, I can't help but get a sense of dread. Now with all this talk of "mechanical or GTFO", I wonder if I'm wasting my time here if they're just going to kick me out or force me to be a miserable grease monkey.
Well, then I began to think of the Coast Guard. There's so much about the Coast Guard that resonated with me. Better uniforms, easier deployment area, and a mission I have no moral qualms over. That's when I remembered something. Part of the reason I moved over to the Air Force in the first place is because P.O. Roberts said that he couldn't recruit anybody until August. I thought, "Meh, I've come this far with my paperwork. I can lateral over to the Air Force and be long gone by then." Needless to say, this has not happened. In fact, I may not be able to leave until next summer if this keeps up. Who knew finding a job in the service would be this hard. That's when I remembered one of the selling points of the Coast Guard. You don't have to sign up for a job when you join. In fact, they encourage you to be a nobody for a period so you can make an informed decision when you make up your mind. You are then put on a waiting list for that tech school. Here's the kicker: all while you are still in service making rank, getting paid, and earning that GI Bill. The Air Force simply cannot compare to that.
So I think to myself: what good am I doing in the Air Force DEP twiddling my thumbs, waiting around only to get kicked out months down the line? They're compiling their lists for who goes in October now, and if I jump I can make it. Hell, I may even ship out long before I could now with the current state of the Air Force. It should be easy to quit the Air Force DEP. They keep telling us that being in the Air Force is a privilege, and this morning Sgt. McDaniel's superior told the newbies that if they don't like the job opportunities available they can join another branch. The Air Force forums also say that the Air Force is shrinking, not expanding. So if you aren't willing to take one for the team and conform to the Air Force's job constraints, expect a pre-mature discharge. All this had made the idea of going back Coast Guard very tempting.
So this afternoon I had a conversation with a recruiter over their Live Chat function. Apologies in advance, this guy's name was also Chris. I'll just punch his responses up with italics. That seems to be the scholarly thing to do.
Please wait for a site operator to respond.
All operators are currently assisting others. Thanks for your patience. An operator will be with you shortly.
All operators are currently assisting others. Thanks for your patience. An operator will be with you shortly.
Hello, this is'Chris', what can I do for you?
Chris: If I voluntarily drop out of the Air Force DEP, will I be barred from joining the Air Force for the rest of my life?
Chris: Please be patient, and do not disconnect, I'll be right with you.
Chris: If you have a reason, that is out of your control, like a medical condition or something, no.
Chris: What if it were unexcused?
Chris: Then you probably would have a hard time getting recruiter to ever work you again, but you will need to discuss this with your recruiter.
Chris: Understandable. I've got another question.
Chris: Sure.
Chris: If you listed an AFSC on your job list, and you currently have not booked a job, can you edit your list and remove one (provided that you still have the minimum 5).
Chris: Yes, as long as you have not booked a job yet, then you can add and take away from your list, through your recruiter, who will coordinate this with the job counselors at the MEPS. You do still need to have the minimum number of choices.
Chris: What should I do if my current DE leader has told me otherwise?
Chris: *DEP leader
Chris: What is a DEP leader?
Chris: Huh. Uh, the recruiter in charge of my DEP flight?
Chris: I had a strange experience happen where I was transferred to another recruiter's DEP for convenience purposes, but I still keep in contact with my original recruiter. So I call him my DEP leader to keep them separate.
Chris: Is this a different person than the recruiter who did all your paperwork and sent you to the MEPS?
Chris: Yes. I'm in my current DEP flight for job listing purposes only. I was told that I would have a much better chance at booking jobs with that recruiter than the one I started with.
Chris: Bottom line, you get to make the choices, not the recruiter, so if you want to change your choices and the recruiter doesn't wish to assist you, then ask to speak to his supervisor, if you need to get your parents involved, then do so.
Chris: Ok, that makes sense. I've got a similar question.
Chris: I've been told that I might be discharged from my DEP flight because I haven't listed any Mechanical Area jobs. It is my understanding that the majority of the jobs available now are Mechanical, and to insist on the other three areas is "wasting the recruiter's time". Can I be discharged for this?
Chris: Standby.
Chris: We are not aware of any such policy, it is my belief that the recruiter is just trying to help folks get into the AF, we only have certain jobs we need filled each year. But after speaking to the folks at headquarters, It is still 5 jobs and one area, either General, Electrical, or mechanical.
Chris: Ok. How up-to-date do you suppose headquarters is about the "one area" detail? When I picked jobs at my MEPS liaison in May he told me the current policy was 5 jobs and two open areas.
Chris: Thank you for waiting. I'll be with you in just a moment.
Chris: I'm sorry for the delay. I'll be right with you.
Chris: Sure thing. Take your time.
Chris: The field may have a more stringent policy in place, they can do that. We list the minimum to apply, at this level. So, had you been told before you processed that you had to list a mechanical job, you would have do so, but apparently, you were not, so they cannot kick you out of DEP, unless they know without a doubt, they cannot get you in the AF, no sense wasting your time, correct?
Chris: But can they remove me from my DEP flight, without telling me this at any time before I signed up?
Chris: If you are released by the AF, because we do not have any of your choices available, then you would be able to apply at a later date.
Chris: Huh. I've just trying to find the truth between being told two conflicting pieces of information. My DEP leader's substitute mentioned that people like me may be discharged for not striking mechanical, but my original recruiter this morning told me now to worry about it because I have two open areas on my job list.
Chris: What are your choices?
Chris: Just curious?
Chris: The highest Open Area General, and the highest Open Area Electronic.
Chris: I was not interested in mechanical or administrative, so I choose those two.
Chris: Please be patient, and do not disconnect, I'll be right with you.
Chris: And your job choices?
Chris: I have seven right now. I have the list somewhere, standby.
Chris: Thank you for waiting. I'll be with you in just a moment.
Chris: Cyber Transport, Cyber Surety, Ground Radar Systems, Air Traffic Control, Client Systems, Cyber Systems Operations, Avionics Test Station and Components
Chris: Chris, don't worry about getting DEP discharged or changing your jobs, you have listed plenty of good jobs! Stay in contact with your original recruiter and if they DEP discharge you, before one year in the DEP, please let us know, ok.
Chris: Alright, sure thing. My dilemma I was toying with was that I would currently be in a favorable position with another branch if I were to drop out now. It would be a better alternative than to be discharged a few months down the road and have missed my chance with the other service. Though, given what you've told me I'll hold off on that idea.
Chris: I'm sorry for the delay. I'll be right with you.
Chris: The other services will always need warm bodies, the AF is the hardest to join, but the best to serve in, just go to your local VFW and ask any retired veteran! lol
Chris: I've got one last question for you. At what point would your decide to book you for an Open Area, instead of waiting on your individual jobs to show up?
Chris: *What point would your recruiter/his supervisor decide
Chris: Please be patient, and do not disconnect, I'll be right with you.
Chris: I'm sorry for the delay. I'll be right with you.
Chris: This is a bit more complicated, in a nutshell, every month, the AF releases so many jobs and so many areas to be booked, In simple terms, the AF looks at your first choice and if there is a match, you get booked, this is repeated for all your choices, in order of preference until you book a job. Now you also are ranked with other folks, in the DEP, generally, not always, folks in the DEP longest, will book first.
Chris: If you get booked an area, you will choose your job in basic, but only from that area.
Chris: Ok, so the AFSC for an Open Area is distributed in the same way the other jobs are? I figured my recruiter would get frustrated at some point and assign me a ship date with an Open Area.
Chris: The recruiter has nothing to do with your job reservation, it is done way above his or her heads!
Chris: So the process for an open area is the same for individual jobs? It's simply an AFSC they weigh against your list, and it either comes up or it doesn't. Correct?
Chris: Correct, whichever comes open first, is what you get booked.
Chris: Ok, that makes much more sense. I've never been properly explained that before. That concludes whatever questions I had about the Air Force at this time. Thanks for your help, Chris. Goodbye.
Chris: Your welcome, unfortunately, a lot of recruiters are not the versed in job reservations, becuase that is not their job. It is the job of the job counselors are the MEPS, but they don't always have a lot of time to explain all the details, but I'm glad you can rest easier now!
Chris: Sure thing, but I gotta run. Thanks for your help.
Chris: Thank you for visiting airforce.com and our Live chat. Best wishes.
Chat session has been terminated by the site operator.
Heh, guy was so busy he had to keep macroing me that he wasn't ignoring me. They probably pay him to multitask between windows. So it turns out that "DEP Leader" is a goddamn liar. I should have known. Whenever he seems really happy to say something, that's probably his tell. I thought he looked suspicious when he first mentioned it to me. I sure as hell won't be going to him anymore for information or favors. That ass only wants to make his record look productive so he can get his promotion, and apparently he doesn't care what he has to fluff to make mission. Isn't that completely contradictory to the recruiters creed framed up in his office?
So I'm still undecided on what to do. I think I'm going to plan an emergency trip to Atlanta later this week and ask a Coast Guard recruiter what the current state of affairs are. If he can be straight forward about his list, whether he still has room, and the relative ease of lateraling over I may move this project from 'passing thought' to 'serious plan'. It's risky. It's insane. I will most definitely burn some bridges here with both the Air Force, and my dad. Heh. I can hear it now. "WHAT?! After seven months of work you're going to wreck it all, go back to square one, all because the Coast Guard guy 'thinks he can help'. You were already in the DEP set to go! This is Bullshit!! ...I hate you. Stop living at my house at your nearest inconvenience."
It's been said that when you're making tough decisions to always "follow your heart", even if it leads you to impulsive stupid mistakes. But what feels right is to take my chances and follow my dreams. I've still got a lot of time to think it over. I think I can budget some time to think in the MEPS lobby after I stumble through the EDPT... which I am probably sabotaging by staying up so late for. Revelry is at 0350 tomorrow and it's 0006 now. This does not bode well for my eye-lids.
I guess I'll sleep on it. While I still can.