Just some thoughts on the thoughts about 4x08

[soniced_up]

I've seen quite a few people who are upset that Moffat seems to have blatantly ripped off pretty much every piece of popular science fiction known to man.  I'm not agreeing or disagreeing here, I will hold my judgment until after next week but I do have an idea why he's done this.  I think it might be on purpose.  They are in a library.  The little

Comments

[winterwooskie2]

I'm not concerned by Moffat's treatment of women on the whole - Sally was pretty fierce, bizarre sudden onset of relationship with some random bloke aside - but Miss Evangelista struck me as vaguely off-putting. She was stupid, clingy, laughed at, a red-shirt (in fact she seemed to only be there to be laughed at and then die) and she was made up with big pouty lips and wide eyes that made her resemble a sex doll. She was a victim in every sense, was largely ignored by others...Donna's friendship with her worked to dispel that and expose the nastiness of the bullying, but it remained a fairly problematic portrayal

[madamotaku]

I'm hoping that there is actually some significance to Miss Evangelista's character and her relationship to Donna that will be revealed in ep 9 (something I heard in the audio commentary indicated that this may be the case), because otherwise I don't get why she exists. At first I was thinking she'd do something clever by the end of the story and prove her fellow crewmembers wrong but...no. Her death was nicely creepy, but the Moff could have easily done the same with Other Dave.

Ice cream = I scream (her dying moment) possibly?

[winterwooskie2]

Yeah, I heard she'll be of greater importance than we've been led to believe thus far, so I'm hoping that helps dispel the problems.

And yes, I agree - her death WAS creepy, and it helped that she was so childlike. And the "I scream" thing crossed my mind too. I thought it was a nice play on words that made the scene more unsettling - comfort food or horror?

[beandelphiki]

Yeah, I thought the point of, "ice cream," was that it's an innocuous phrase which gradually becomes more and more unnerving the longer you listen to it being repeated. Very Moffat.

[annissa]

Wasn't she trying to scream? I didn't think she was saying 'ice cream' but instead saying "I scream... I scream...".

I didn't appreciate Miss Evangelista's death either. Can you imagine her character as male? I think they'd feel the need to write more value into the character. What was her job on the ship? Assistant? She got that because of her looks? Wow, great example to the kiddies.

[winterwooskie2]

I heard "ice cream", but it's slurred together and intoned in such a way that I think it's meant to be ambiguous. We don't know if she was trying to scream or if it was just an arbitrary, random thought (like Anita's grandfather's shoelaces). It's kind of chilling.

And yes, there was a rather odd line where she explained she was Lux's "personal...everything." Which was a joke, but if you think about it for a second more it becomes kind of...sinister. But then at that point I think I'm LOOKING for hints that she's this abused innocent.

[mtsbspidey]

"And yes, there was a rather odd line where she explained she was Lux's "personal...everything." Which was a joke, but if you think about it for a second more it becomes kind of...sinister. But then at that point I think I'm LOOKING for hints that she's this abused innocent."

hmmm...i just took it as that old trope of the powerful businessperson (male or female) who simply can't function without their personal assistant (again male or female) to do everything for them...example - in iron man tony stark needing pepper pots because he doesn't even know his social security number

[soniced_up]

That would make total sense if they hadn't go to such extremes to convince us that she was so stupid *cringes at word*, that she essentially would have been useless to him.

[mtsbspidey]

i can see that...though it's just as possible that after a life of being told she's stupid she believes it herself even when it's really not the case...i know several people that that applies to...smart and completely competent but with such low self-esteem that they don't even realize it

[winterwooskie2]

I thought so too, I just like over-analyzing things. ;) Reading between lines that aren't there is what I do best!

[luxurias_slave]

she got the job as assistant and yes she would say "i'm stupid I just get things on how I look everyone calls me stupid". to me she doesnt' even have a choice how she's made to look, she just tries to be good at something cause her self esteem is so low cause no one gave her a second thought to allow her to learn things/be taught something

[bulky_monster]

There are smart people, and dumb people in the world... some are male, some are female. I took the point as being "don't be a jerk to someone just because they're not too bright." I thought her character was another nod to the "no such thing as an ordinary human" trend in the series, where even though she's slow on the uptake, she's a good and worthwhile person and her death was just as poignant as anyone else's.

[winterwooskie2]

Oh, I agree! Sorry if my comment came off as a bit "HOW DARE YOU SUGGEST A WOMAN COULD BE STUPID OMG MISOGYNIST", Evangelista just seemed a bit too stupid for comfort, to the point of being an extremely unrealistic caricature. She was marked for death as soon as we saw her because she wasn't a character, she was a walking character trait. All she did was look vacant and confused, she was described to us via jokes which she was the butt of, and as such she was a very typical horror movie stock character. It was a little disappointing, but then I think much of the episode reveled in typical horror iconography and dialogue ("who turned out the lights", etc.), so it was probably intentional.

But as I said, I don't see negative portrayals of women as a trend of Moffat's - the bumbling idiot character in Blink was a bloke, after all.

[bulky_monster]

No, I wasn't interpreting your comment like that, just discussing. Of course it's hard to put a proper tone into typed words, especially before my morning coffee, so I understand the concern ;)

Anyway, I do see what you're saying about her being a "stock character." However, I thought they did a nice mix of creepiness and poignancy with her death, leaving me at least with a distinct feeling of unease.

Some people do astound me with their interpretations of things, though... like this one blogger who decided that Joss Whedon was a "rapist" because of his portrayals of female characters. I mean, wow.

[winterwooskie2]

Aha, I've seen that Whedon interpretation! It's hilarious. Now I just critique all of his work as the mad ravings of a racist, homophobic, misogynist rapist. It's so obvious to me now! Joss Whedon hates everyone and should be locked up for the world's safety. Clearly.

[bulky_monster]

I felt sorry for the woman, she's probably been through some trauma and if so she clearly isn't dealing with it well. At the same time, there are plenty of people who for no visible reason kind of get the same way. They can be pretty funny sometimes, especially as they are so easy to provoke... not that I would.... muahaha