Re: a responsesolidmixerOctober 3 2008, 02:26:54 UTC
Continuing...
[2] trust me when i say, "you have a lot to learn about women." and any girls reading this, trust me when i say, "the way to fix that problem is not through your 'boyfriend' or whoever; it is through figuring out for yourself what works."
HAHAHA i might need another message length to respnd to this one... Mostly I was joking about the competent boyfriend, or rather using the word "competent" out of context. I know very well that as with personalities, sexually women are all varied and very different in what they like and what works for them. Hence, I do agree with your "figuring out for yourself what works."
The reason I chose "competent" was it sounded funnier and I try to make a joke whenever I feel like it. The word I would've chosen had I been serious would be "sensitive" and for the same reason as above: All women are different, and it takes a boyfriend who would be willing to work with his partner to figure out what works and to make sure her experience is as pleasurable as his. Personally, I am of that mindset, because to me sex is about showing your love and affection for one another in addition to anything it may have for you personally. Sure it's fun (typically, i mean, i wouldn't know but looking at the average...) but it's about partnership and it is (or should be) more selfless than selfish.
It took me so long to write that last bit that I sorta lost the way I wanted to word it so I did the best I could, feel free to ask me more about it.
And my last point on this one, the "You have a lot to learn about women," I won't be egotistical and disagree because yes, I do know I have a lot to learn, but I will say that based on the fact that I WAS kidding about the competent part, I'm sure that I know a little more than you think (or at least, thought) i did.
And again, every woman / girl is different, and whomever I choose to date / marry i will of course need to learn about, and in my case, I REALLY want to know them well, not in only a physical sense, but hopefully in a level much deeper than that. A truly emotional, intellectual, and mutual affection for one another. Because deep down, that's what we look for, right?
Well most of us. I HAVE met guys that want that and I HAVE met guys who don't. Same could be said, I'm sure, of girls.
Anyway, to finish off...
another excerpt: "It's interesting though that womens' pleasures are not even related to procreation." people who have commented have noted claims that the female orgasm can help ensure conception and, while that may be true, i still stick to what i've said above. also, here's something for you to ponder (since you hold the belief--unless something has changed--that the female orgasm is completely unrelated to procreation): the clitoris is the only organ in the human body whose sole purpose is pleasure.
And the research I have done (and most of it was before the fact, actually, which is sorta sad i didn't consider some things) says that there's no PROOF that the clitoris is the organ that causes orgasm, but it's highly likely. Most of my skepticism is that yes, all women are different, and therefore it is hard to pinpoint where exactly orgasms come from.
As strange as you (i'm assuming you're female) are all strange, and bizarre, and all so different from one another, you are all so interesting and all worth learning about.
Re: a responsesolidmixerOctober 3 2008, 02:27:00 UTC
"also, i like how you oh-so-diplomatically mentioned that it might be you who stays home with the kids."
- Was this sarcasm? You say you like how i said it, but... the oh-so-diplomatically a bit throws me.
Anyway, in my life I see my to-be-wife as a partner, and I hope that all that we decide will be mutual. I hope to marry for true love and not money, and I hope very much that it lasts (though we all know it's work, not hope, that keeps it together).
Considering I'm on my way to being a musician, I might not keep normal hours and therefore, maybe during the day I would have responsibility of the kids. There's nothing wrong with that. Should my wife decide to work OR to stay at home, I would support her either way. But no matter what, i just thought I would make the point that I believe it's sad that sometimes children have to have so much time away from their parents. Not that they don't have time with their parents at all, but i think it's sad teachers get maybe a couple months of leave and then they're back to work, be they male OR female (I had a male teacher who had a baby, his wife was also a teacher.)
"i don't have a formal wrap-up at all (my brain is a little too fried at this point), but i just wanted to say that i appreciate your willingness to make this a dialogue."
Again, i VERY much appreciate the fact you took the time to reply, I've enjoyed this chat, even though it was quite... spaced out? If you would like to reach me further, which i would love to hear more from you, you are free to at Jromega3@gmail.com, omega3mixer on aim, or facebook, I will give out my name via email. Again i got a LOT of good response on facebook as this article was doubled there. I found only select people seem to read my livejournal still, and with all the college friends i've gained, they have some input i love to hear on facebook, though it's harder to reply to them there.
I must go, my friend is bugging me to go to dinner, so I'll talk to you hopefully again sometime. Again, thank you!
Re: a responseskepticalfaceOctober 3 2008, 22:42:17 UTC
hey,
i have to split this in two again...
thanks for clarifying some of those points. i'm starting to see a little better where you are coming from.
the majority of the first half of your comments i don't really feel the need to respond to... you pretty much wrapped up those points.
but, there are a few things i would like to say.
1.) i totally understood that you were joking about the "competent boyfriend" thing. i merely wanted to make sure to point out for anyone (ladies in particular) who doesn't know that you can't count on your partner (at least at first) to figure out or know how to get you off. that comes from knowing your body and understanding how it works, and then communicating that to your partner. you can't get that knowledge of your own body from another person. this is a really big deal for girls.
while there is a certain amount of pressure on guys not to masturbate, it is pretty much accepted that they, by and large, do. there might be a bit of a slap on the wrist (or something more severe, depending on upbringing, religion, etc.) for appearances, but it is generally understood and accepted that boys/men masturbate.
girls on the other hand....... as you said, you (and most of this society) didn't think they "do that kind of thing." i believe this society's--and many others'--view of female masturbation comes from a deep, deep fear of female sexuality, but that's another (enormous) discussion altogether.
...i'm trying to make a point here, and i think i might need to tell a quick story to get there, so bear with me.
i was talking a few years ago to a group of teenage girls. one of them was talking about an older (probably 20s) girl she knew. she told us that this older friend of hers is heavily pierced and even has (actual quote-->) "random parts of her vagina pierced." i was stunned. yes, they can pierce damn near anything these days (uvulas included), but this indicated to me that a problem i was already aware of is much worse than i thought. this teenage girl was seriously lacking knowledge about her own anatomy. as a guy you may have a difficult time understanding what i'm about to say and what it does to a girl/woman's psyche, but i think it's important for guys to hear about this as well. girls are taught--overtly and covertly--that getting their period is gross; that what is between their legs is territory that is not to be explored by anyone but their husband and not until their wedding night; that nice girls don't touch themselves; that, essentially, the women of the world are divided up into three groups--virgins, whores, and mothers--and "i don't think you need me to tell you which you don't want to be"; etc., etc., etc. do you get what i'm saying? we are taught to fear and loathe our bodies.
there is so much to say about this issue, and i don't have the time or energy right now to really get into it, so i will simply make a recommendation: read betty dodson. read her work, read about her. she is amazing. her most famous book is called sex for one: the joy of self-loving, which i highly recommend. but you should also, like i said, read about her. did you know that there are some sexologists/sex therapists out there that hold masturbation workshops? there are!! you'll probably find her quite interesting.
1.a.) another book i think you should probably read is cunt by inga muscio. as margaret cho said, "everyone who was born out of one needs to read cunt."
1.b.) i'm sure it's abundantly clear by now, but since i haven't stated it for the record: yes, i am female. (i'm lesley's sister, emily... i hope that doesn't make this discussion awkward for anyone.)
Re: a responseskepticalfaceOctober 3 2008, 22:47:35 UTC
continued....
2.) i didn't say that the clitoris is "the organ that causes the orgasm." i said that is the only organ whose sole function is pleasure. it's not an opposable thumb, we don't pee out of it, it doesn't help our balance. yes, it contributes to the orgasm (most women need clitoral and vaginal stimulation to achieve an orgasm) and, yes, every woman is different, but the clit is only there for pleasure. personally, i think that's pretty amazing. and all the more reason to (as immature and frat-boyish as it sounds) respect the clit.
3.) in regards to the "oh-so-diplomatically" comment. i really didn't mean that to be a direct dis to you, so i apologize that it came across as such. it's just that that particular statement is one of the ones that you hear lots of men say... without being completely sure they are in earnest. i mean, it's pretty easy to say the thing that you think someone wants to hear when you feel quite confident it'll never come to that.
3.a.) as far as children not getting optimal amounts of time with their parents... i think that has more to do with our society's obsession with work than anything. look at our work week and vacation allowances compared to those of other countries. it's insane. children are so incredibly important, and i wholeheartedly agree that it would be better if parents had the opportunity to spend more time with their kids.
so... yeah. that's pretty much all i have in response to your response to my response. if you get some time and happen to read either of the books i mentioned, let me know.
Re: a responsesolidmixerOctober 3 2008, 22:52:04 UTC
HI EMILY! It sure has been a while! I would send another lengthy response but i was in a scooter incident and sprained my hand O.o hard to type w/ only my right hand. i'll spare you the jokes, but you may make some if you want, considering our given topic.
And don't worry not awkward at all.
I just might check it out, but the looks i'll get when buying the book will be priceless ^_^
anyway, thanks, looking forward to reading your next half-response...
[2] trust me when i say, "you have a lot to learn about women." and any girls reading this, trust me when i say, "the way to fix that problem is not through your 'boyfriend' or whoever; it is through figuring out for yourself what works."
HAHAHA i might need another message length to respnd to this one... Mostly I was joking about the competent boyfriend, or rather using the word "competent" out of context. I know very well that as with personalities, sexually women are all varied and very different in what they like and what works for them. Hence, I do agree with your "figuring out for yourself what works."
The reason I chose "competent" was it sounded funnier and I try to make a joke whenever I feel like it. The word I would've chosen had I been serious would be "sensitive" and for the same reason as above: All women are different, and it takes a boyfriend who would be willing to work with his partner to figure out what works and to make sure her experience is as pleasurable as his. Personally, I am of that mindset, because to me sex is about showing your love and affection for one another in addition to anything it may have for you personally. Sure it's fun (typically, i mean, i wouldn't know but looking at the average...) but it's about partnership and it is (or should be) more selfless than selfish.
It took me so long to write that last bit that I sorta lost the way I wanted to word it so I did the best I could, feel free to ask me more about it.
And my last point on this one, the "You have a lot to learn about women," I won't be egotistical and disagree because yes, I do know I have a lot to learn, but I will say that based on the fact that I WAS kidding about the competent part, I'm sure that I know a little more than you think (or at least, thought) i did.
And again, every woman / girl is different, and whomever I choose to date / marry i will of course need to learn about, and in my case, I REALLY want to know them well, not in only a physical sense, but hopefully in a level much deeper than that. A truly emotional, intellectual, and mutual affection for one another. Because deep down, that's what we look for, right?
Well most of us. I HAVE met guys that want that and I HAVE met guys who don't. Same could be said, I'm sure, of girls.
Anyway, to finish off...
another excerpt: "It's interesting though that womens' pleasures are not even related to procreation." people who have commented have noted claims that the female orgasm can help ensure conception and, while that may be true, i still stick to what i've said above. also, here's something for you to ponder (since you hold the belief--unless something has changed--that the female orgasm is completely unrelated to procreation): the clitoris is the only organ in the human body whose sole purpose is pleasure.
And the research I have done (and most of it was before the fact, actually, which is sorta sad i didn't consider some things) says that there's no PROOF that the clitoris is the organ that causes orgasm, but it's highly likely. Most of my skepticism is that yes, all women are different, and therefore it is hard to pinpoint where exactly orgasms come from.
As strange as you (i'm assuming you're female) are all strange, and bizarre, and all so different from one another, you are all so interesting and all worth learning about.
Reply
- Was this sarcasm? You say you like how i said it, but... the oh-so-diplomatically a bit throws me.
Anyway, in my life I see my to-be-wife as a partner, and I hope that all that we decide will be mutual. I hope to marry for true love and not money, and I hope very much that it lasts (though we all know it's work, not hope, that keeps it together).
Considering I'm on my way to being a musician, I might not keep normal hours and therefore, maybe during the day I would have responsibility of the kids. There's nothing wrong with that. Should my wife decide to work OR to stay at home, I would support her either way. But no matter what, i just thought I would make the point that I believe it's sad that sometimes children have to have so much time away from their parents. Not that they don't have time with their parents at all, but i think it's sad teachers get maybe a couple months of leave and then they're back to work, be they male OR female (I had a male teacher who had a baby, his wife was also a teacher.)
"i don't have a formal wrap-up at all (my brain is a little too fried at this point), but i just wanted to say that i appreciate your willingness to make this a dialogue."
Again, i VERY much appreciate the fact you took the time to reply, I've enjoyed this chat, even though it was quite... spaced out? If you would like to reach me further, which i would love to hear more from you, you are free to at Jromega3@gmail.com, omega3mixer on aim, or facebook, I will give out my name via email. Again i got a LOT of good response on facebook as this article was doubled there. I found only select people seem to read my livejournal still, and with all the college friends i've gained, they have some input i love to hear on facebook, though it's harder to reply to them there.
I must go, my friend is bugging me to go to dinner, so I'll talk to you hopefully again sometime. Again, thank you!
Reply
i have to split this in two again...
thanks for clarifying some of those points. i'm starting to see a little better where you are coming from.
the majority of the first half of your comments i don't really feel the need to respond to... you pretty much wrapped up those points.
but, there are a few things i would like to say.
1.) i totally understood that you were joking about the "competent boyfriend" thing. i merely wanted to make sure to point out for anyone (ladies in particular) who doesn't know that you can't count on your partner (at least at first) to figure out or know how to get you off. that comes from knowing your body and understanding how it works, and then communicating that to your partner. you can't get that knowledge of your own body from another person. this is a really big deal for girls.
while there is a certain amount of pressure on guys not to masturbate, it is pretty much accepted that they, by and large, do. there might be a bit of a slap on the wrist (or something more severe, depending on upbringing, religion, etc.) for appearances, but it is generally understood and accepted that boys/men masturbate.
girls on the other hand....... as you said, you (and most of this society) didn't think they "do that kind of thing." i believe this society's--and many others'--view of female masturbation comes from a deep, deep fear of female sexuality, but that's another (enormous) discussion altogether.
...i'm trying to make a point here, and i think i might need to tell a quick story to get there, so bear with me.
i was talking a few years ago to a group of teenage girls. one of them was talking about an older (probably 20s) girl she knew. she told us that this older friend of hers is heavily pierced and even has (actual quote-->) "random parts of her vagina pierced." i was stunned. yes, they can pierce damn near anything these days (uvulas included), but this indicated to me that a problem i was already aware of is much worse than i thought. this teenage girl was seriously lacking knowledge about her own anatomy. as a guy you may have a difficult time understanding what i'm about to say and what it does to a girl/woman's psyche, but i think it's important for guys to hear about this as well. girls are taught--overtly and covertly--that getting their period is gross; that what is between their legs is territory that is not to be explored by anyone but their husband and not until their wedding night; that nice girls don't touch themselves; that, essentially, the women of the world are divided up into three groups--virgins, whores, and mothers--and "i don't think you need me to tell you which you don't want to be"; etc., etc., etc. do you get what i'm saying? we are taught to fear and loathe our bodies.
there is so much to say about this issue, and i don't have the time or energy right now to really get into it, so i will simply make a recommendation: read betty dodson. read her work, read about her. she is amazing. her most famous book is called sex for one: the joy of self-loving, which i highly recommend. but you should also, like i said, read about her. did you know that there are some sexologists/sex therapists out there that hold masturbation workshops? there are!! you'll probably find her quite interesting.
1.a.) another book i think you should probably read is cunt by inga muscio. as margaret cho said, "everyone who was born out of one needs to read cunt."
1.b.) i'm sure it's abundantly clear by now, but since i haven't stated it for the record: yes, i am female. (i'm lesley's sister, emily... i hope that doesn't make this discussion awkward for anyone.)
Reply
2.) i didn't say that the clitoris is "the organ that causes the orgasm." i said that is the only organ whose sole function is pleasure. it's not an opposable thumb, we don't pee out of it, it doesn't help our balance. yes, it contributes to the orgasm (most women need clitoral and vaginal stimulation to achieve an orgasm) and, yes, every woman is different, but the clit is only there for pleasure. personally, i think that's pretty amazing. and all the more reason to (as immature and frat-boyish as it sounds) respect the clit.
3.) in regards to the "oh-so-diplomatically" comment. i really didn't mean that to be a direct dis to you, so i apologize that it came across as such. it's just that that particular statement is one of the ones that you hear lots of men say... without being completely sure they are in earnest. i mean, it's pretty easy to say the thing that you think someone wants to hear when you feel quite confident it'll never come to that.
3.a.) as far as children not getting optimal amounts of time with their parents... i think that has more to do with our society's obsession with work than anything. look at our work week and vacation allowances compared to those of other countries. it's insane. children are so incredibly important, and i wholeheartedly agree that it would be better if parents had the opportunity to spend more time with their kids.
so... yeah. that's pretty much all i have in response to your response to my response. if you get some time and happen to read either of the books i mentioned, let me know.
talk to you later.
Reply
And don't worry not awkward at all.
I just might check it out, but the looks i'll get when buying the book will be priceless ^_^
anyway, thanks, looking forward to reading your next half-response...
Reply
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