prayer part two
Sarah says
i don't say this to be mean, but we all have to die sometime, whether it's a newborn baby or someone who lives to be 105
Stacey says
if you look at the Lord's prayer... it teaches us to think of the Lord and His will and provisions in our lives. not to beg Him to change our circumstances
i agree
Sarah says
we don't understand why people die when we think they're too young, but we aren't God
Stacey says
which is why i don't get prayer in some ways. like begging and pleading for a healing
honor God, worship Him, thank Him, seek how you can serve Him, and think of others
that's what I think of prayer. not a wish list to see if you can get Him to be your personal santa
lol
Sarah says
when i had my hysterectomy almost 10 years ago, i believe it was because people were praying for me that i didn't die
i don't understand why some people die and some don
't
Stacey says
so do you really think that God wouldn't have noticed you and your surgery had people not been crying out on your behalf?
that's the part i don't get
Sarah says
i dont think it's that
God sees everyone and whats going on
Stacey says
i think God loves us and knows us and will do what is best in our lives regardless of if you have 10 friends or 10,000 (who may or may not pray for you)
i don't think God works in a popularity contest and saves those who have the most pull
Sarah says
so are you saying you dont think it matters if we pray for someone or not when they're sick/dying
??
Stacey says
pretty much, yes
i mean, i think it's good to think of them and love them and put others before ourselves
but i dont' think we're going to change that person's time of death or life and make God pay more attention to them just by asking
Sarah says
i think we can
Stacey says
i don't think God loves the member of a large church more than He loves the homeless man who no one noticed was sick
and he's saved many without prayer and many with prayer. i think He loves us and we don't manipulate Him into letting someone live longer
Sarah says
so why pray then
Stacey says
i think prayer is for us
Sarah says
why talk to god
Stacey says
and communion with him
Sarah says
why worship him
Stacey says
not to manipulate him
but to love him
Sarah says
if he loves us regardless, why pray
Stacey says
not to ask him to change things, but to thank him
to have a relationship
i pray all the time
and seek wisdom and direction
Sarah says
do you ask brian for things?
Stacey says
and to reflect
he is human. he doesn't know my needs unless i ask him. he's not God
Sarah says
did you ask your dad for things when you were home
Stacey says
God knows my heart and the hairs on my head
I don't have a human relationship with God
i have a supernatural relationship
Sarah says
well actually u kinda do. . . you are human
Stacey says
yes, but He is not
Sarah says
so the relationship is half human
Stacey says
i love with a flawed, human heart
and flawed human understanding
but I love a perfect and just God
and the fact that I can enter His presence and commune with His is astounding
and worthy of praise and honor
and if all He ever did for me was send His son, that's more than enough
i don't need to ask for more
Sarah says
there have been many times when i've asked God for something and he's provided
but i dont know if he would have provided if i hadn't asked
Stacey says
and i certainly don't need to stress myself with why He'd answer this prayer or that prayer and not this one. so i don't ask for things and I trust that my life is in His hands and what He gave me in salvation is the greatest gift of all and what i do with my life on earth is my humble and meager gift to him
i agree. He provides
he's also provided ways for me without my asking
i don't think you have to ask. i think you have to open your eyes to see his blessings
and you have to thank him
Sarah says
i see his blessings every day and i thank him for everything i have
Stacey says
as do i
Sarah says
but sometimes i have needs that come up suddenly
Stacey says
yes, and he saw them coming, too
or we made a mistake and we have to pay a consequence (that's been mine sometimes)
but He always makes a way
Sarah says
that aren't expected, and i ask because the bible says that we are to ask
Stacey says
whether i spend hours asking him to, or whether i spend time looking for the solution he's already provided or be sensitive to the doors he's opening
when i pray, it's more like a, "god, here i am. i'm hurting. i'm confused. i'm broke (or insert whatever). but i know you are my provider and i praise you for what you are doing and have done and will do. help me to see the path to walk, etc etc etc"
and when i see what he's provide, i praise him internally and publically
Sarah says
if you spend hours looking for a solution yourself, isn't that really you doing it instead of God
Stacey says
and i think i'm more aware of what he does for me because i do pray and am in relationship with him
and i dont think he provides more for me than my neighbor down the street, but perhaps i receive more of the blessings because i'm aware of them and look for what he's going to do
i never said i spent hours looking for solutions myself
Sarah says
ok, not hours, but time
Stacey says
you misread/mistook what i said
i can spend hours begging him to do something, or i can look for what he's already done
either way, He provides
Sarah says
He provides, but I also ask
Stacey says
i'm not saying YOU'RE wrong for doing so
your relationship is personal as is mine. and i don't feel the need to ask. i just look for what he's done and thank him for it and ask him for opportunities to see his blessings and praise him for them whether they be in daily needs or emergencies
then i don't have to stress about why god asnwers this and not that. or wonder why god would listen to this person's prayer and not that persons. there are things i don't have to know the answer to, and this is one of them
Sarah says
right
prayer is personal, everyone looks at prayer differently
Stacey says
and i cannot bring myself to my knees and beg god to heal someone... because who am i to presume that i know what is best? i don't. i know my human heart and my human emotions and i share myself with God. and i leave the big decisions in his hands (where i feel they were to begin with)
Sarah says
i mean, not everyone has the same relationship with God as the next person
my opinion. . . i think begging and asking are different
Stacey says
because i went years wondering why god didn't hear us
and why god's favor wasn't on us
and that's no way to live either
we prayed and prayed and had all these churches praying for "traveling mercies" and angels to keep us safe on the highways, etc etc etc
i can accept the appointed time to die. it's not pretty, but i get it
so rather than question it, this is the peace that God has brought me
Sarah says
that's good, if you don't hold any "anger" toward God for allowing it to happen, and can accept things for the way they are
Stacey says
and i'm content having a personal prayer relationship. i share my emotions and feelings and hurts and joys in my prayer closet. and i worship him for who he is and what he's done and is going to to. and ask for direction in my life and for a soft and yielding spirit
and if someone is sick and i'm sad, i tell him
and if someone is travelling and i really want them home safe, i tell him
but i don't think that i'll change his mind or the plan for the world because i, staceymarie, want it
here's a blog i wrote several years ago http://www.myspace.com/staceytraxler/blog/281759466
Sarah says
I can see where you are coming from, but Moses changed the mind of God
Even tho that's old testament, its still bible
Stacey says
God also told him what the plan was and that he was going to set his people free. he was moving in what God told him to do. and if God told me to speak a word of life or healing over someone, i'd do it and i'd know they'd be supernaturally healed
Sarah says
God has a plan for the world, but I think God's plan can change
just my thot
Stacey says
we all have our special place with our faith that keeps us going
Sarah says
my thot is, that God wants to give us more than we have but i also think He wants us to ask
Stacey says
God meets us where we are and reveals himself in a multitude of ways -- in ways we're willing to see, hear, and receive him because he loves us that much. and he created us, so he knows how different we all are
and my thought is he wants to give us more than we can think or ask, but he wants us not to be reliant on ourselves and if we see and know and praise where our blessings come from, more and more come our way rather than trying to make them happen ourselves
Sarah says
i agree, but i also think we need to ask
Stacey says
i don't. i bless my children and care for their needs whether they ask me or not. and if i know what they need, i dont hold out and make them ask for it. and God is a much better parent than i am
Sarah says
i guess i go by the scripture, "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and it will be opened, for everyone who asks, receives, and the one who seeks, finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened"
Matthew 7:7-8
The bible tells us to ask
but hey, this is a good debate
Stacey says
i still think that we have the same thing, but different takes on it
i ask
i ask that my heart be open and my eyes open to see his blessings
i seek his face and his presence
it doesn't say what to ask for
Sarah says
true, so that must mean we can ask for anything
Stacey says
doesn't mean he'll give us anything we ask for
Sarah says
i dont know why God answers some peoples prayers and not others
Stacey says
i don't think that's how it works. i don't think he picks and chooses who to answer.
Sarah says
I don't either
i believe it has to do with peoples faith
Stacey says
so rather than giving him a laundry list and wondering why he will do this and not that, i trust him and look for his blessings in everyday life and thank him for them.
i don't
i don't think you can have enough faith to raise the dead
or heal a sick person
or save someone from an accident
Sarah says
i think a person can
i don't but i know people who have
Stacey says
well, i don't think it's a person's faith. god says he can do miracles with the faith of a mustard seed
you don't have to have more faith than joe schmoe for god to move
i don't serve a god who picks favorites
lol
nor do i want to, honestly. popularity contests suck.
and that's not what my faith is about
Sarah says
it has nothing to do with being popular
Stacey says
to me, it does. if you believe enough in just the right way, you can move the creator of the universe? or if you know enough people with enough faith and influence over almighty god, then he'll save your life? but if you don't, then you're screwed?
that's not who i serve
but that's just me and my take on it. and i'm learning and growing every day
Sarah says
that's not what im saying
Stacey says
i believe God and only God can raise the dead. and He chooses if that's going to happen and can and will use one of his people to do this
Sarah says
i'm not saying that i can manipulate God to do what I want HIM to do, just because I might have more faith than my neighbor or my best friend,
Stacey says
i don't think it's the person's faith that determines if anyone will live or die
or raise from the dead
Sarah says
oh definitely, no man can heal anyone or raise anyone from the dead, but GOD can use people to raise them from teh dead
Stacey says
you said that someone's faith can be strong enough to raise someone from the dead. that yours is not, but some people's are
and i was disagreeing that it was the person's faith that did it.
God can use anyone to perform a miracle, even with just a smidge of faith (mustard seed)
Sarah says
but it's not actually the person who performs the miracle, it's GOD working through them
Stacey says
right. and it's not because of their faith that god did it
Sarah says
That's where we disagree
Stacey says
but because of their relationship with god and the sensitivity to his spirit and his desire to move that he chose to use that vessel
Sarah says
I think it has everything to do with their faith
the bible says "according to your faith"
Stacey says
obviously someone without relationship with him wouldn't be sensitive to know that God wanted to do that and would miss the opportunity
it also says that it only takes the faith of a mustart seed
*mustard
i don't think that God would chose to raise someone from the dead because of one person's faith. or there'd be a lot less dead people today.
and a lot fewer lame, crippled, starving, and lonely
Sarah says
as far as praying for something. . . . Matthew 6:9-13 is the Lord's Prayer. . . Give us this day our daily bread. . . . Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil> . . . "
Stacey says
i had already mentioned the lord's prayer
Sarah says
right, and it says to ask
Stacey says
and i read it as a way to see god moving in all areas of our lives from our daily provision to our thought lives
Sarah says
It's called the Lord's prayer because that's how Jesus prayed
Stacey says
it has been revealed to me differently.
yes, i know
Sarah says
he told us to ASK
Stacey says
but i disagree
on the ask
and it's more to recognize where our help comes from
Sarah says
but it says to ask
there's lots of plac es in the bible that tells us to ask
Stacey says
like i said, i disagree. i dont think that god will not give it to you if you don't ask and i don't think that you can convince god to feed you just by asking where he wouldn't otherwise. but to see where your help comes from
Sarah says
so are you saying that we can scratch out the part of the bible where it says to ask?
after all, if God knows anyway, what's that part doing in the Bible if he really didn't mean for us to ask
Stacey says
i have explained myself over and over
and we're at a stalemate
and it's okay
i interpret it differently
i don't scratch it out
i don't read it as you have to ask or you don't get. i read it as a reminder of who your provider is and to remember that daily. i read it differently and i dont want to argue it. i don't think you're wrong. i just pray the way i feel god has lead me to pray
and i don't bring a laundry list to him, i don't beg him to meet my needs. i thank him for what he's done and is going to do and love him
Sarah says
i guess we'll agree to disagree
Stacey says
and if i feel a certain way (hungry, lonely, sad, scared), then i tell him
and thank him that he meets those needs
in essense, i think it's splitting hairs
and here's another blog http://www.myspace.com/staceytraxler/blog/303427583 (same subject)
Sarah says
If you don't want to ask, you don't have to! But I'm going to! I want all God has for me, and I don't mind asking!
Stacey says
lol
well you can read my prayers as asking if you want
Sarah says
I don't beg,but I ask
AND I believe as long as I am in God's will, and not being selfish in what I'm praying for, then HE will give me the desires of our hearts
my heart
Stacey says
because i'm thanking him for what he's done and asking him to open my eyes to what he will do and thanking him that he meets my needs. just because i dont word it, "god please let me have flour, eggs, milk, and a steak would be nice" doesn't mean that i'm not looking for him to meet my needs and asking in my own way