Sirius Black Sheep

[sistermagpie]

Happy birthday millefioriI was reading a thread on HP4GU today--naturally a long-running thread that I think started with the question of Dumbledore's placing Harry with the Dursleys and it echoed Sirius' life in a weird way for me, in a Meta-way. It started as a conversation about just what business it was of Dumbledore's to decide who Harry lived with.

Comments

[sistermagpie]

Oh, I agree Dumbledore was analyzing the plot--actually, I didn't even react primarily to his criticizing Sirius' flaws so soon after his death. I think that aspect is probably just an inconvenience of the plot--he has to do it here because there's no other scene, though I don't buy some explanations I've read that try to make it seem like Dumbledore must knock some sense into Harry here on this matter. It's just expositional, imo. The reason the speech comes off badly to me is, expositional as it is, to me it makes Dumbledore seem really...what's the word? He makes himself come off far too well in the speech even after saying he's going to talk about his own mistakes. So the whole speech is just really a wrong note for me, despite basically accepting the facts of it. At least some of the facts--I think some of the ways Dumbledore ties things up don't completely hang together. For instance, I think the suggestion that it was Sirius' rudeness to Kreacher that led to Kreacher's betrayal not only doesn't hold up but seems to represent just the sort of condescending self-absorbtion Dumbledore's supposed to be warning against! But that might be me and not the way I'm supposed to read it.

[jodel_from_aol]

I get the impression of a man determined to do justice to a man he thinks is small loss, even if through gritted teeth. From where Albus seems to be coming from, Sirius was only valuable becase Harry unaccountably seemed to value him.

Frankly, I think Albus considered Sirius a bad influence. (Molly clearly did.) He may have even asked Lupin to try to keep his friend under some sort of control. At which he failed miserably.

[dartmouthtongue]

Just saw this, so you don't have to answer my "Why is he coming off badly" question.
He makes himself come off far too well in the speech

I don't know, maybe it's that I don't seem to expect that much from people, but the way he talks about his mistakes --to me-- is the way that a man talks about things about himself he only knows too well. Like when I say I'm snarky, or somewhat insensitive, though I try to better myself and learn to sympathize with people's emotions and shit. Harry is the one who got disappointed because he expected DumbleD to be omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient. Dumbledore knows that he's a brilliant fuck up. He makes AT LEAST one gargantuan mistake a year, and had been saved by Harry's infamous luck again and again. He'd been sliding by because nothing of this magnitude had happened yet that could be directly linked to him. It's like most fans forgave him Quirrel and Cedric and whateverthefuck else, until Sirius, but that's what the speech was about. IMO It's like, was everyone sleeping while I made one mistake after another?

I don't think he came off badly in that speech, he just has never been perfect and now that it's out for everyone to see he's not going to beat himself in the chest and recite Mea Culpa.

[imkalena]

the suggestion that it was Sirius' rudeness to Kreacher that led to Kreacher's betrayal

Can you imagine Mrs. Black being nice to the house elves? Hello, let's cut their heads off! Sirius' rudeness must have been as nothing.

Thank you!!!

[myfatbudgie]

LMAO! Thank you for saying that! God, his Cousin Narcissa's family had Dobby iron his ears, and slam his hands in the drawer to punish themselves for saying or doing the wrong thing, and kicked them for good measure too. I'll just bet Mrs. Black did the same thing. Kreacher didn't seem fazed one whit by Sirius's rudeness. Hermione's kindness didn't seem to matter either. The indifference of the rest didn't matter. So how is this Sirius's fault again? LOL!

Re: Thank you!!!

[sistermagpie]

That whole conclusion seemed bizarre to me--and it seems like a total misreading of Kreacher--a rather complacent one. He seemed to me very openly loyal and attached to the Black family. He's not a stray dog that can be won over with puppy treats by the people taking over his house and throwing out "his" family heirlooms. (Hermione's kindness from Kreacher's pov I assumed was all the more infuriating.) Kreacher and Sirius had a history together--a painful one, imo. Kreacher's determination to act against him went far beyond Kreacher being rude to him--I have no trouble believing his beloved Mrs. Black or Bellatrix could be rude to him.