it's a vicious circle

[silvia_elisa]

Before diving into the posts of the last two days (why do you people have lives?), I have some things I'd like to say. *clears throat*

- French literature. Downright failure. I deprived myself of sleep and forced myself to endless hours of French movies, websites, books, podcasts, music etc. for two months and the result was hearing the teacher

Comments

[borax38]

I'm sorry to hear about your exams not going well. There is only one solution for the French: from now on, we should only communicate in French so you can practice! (Kidding, unless you think it would help you and in that case let's go for it).

[silvia_elisa]

I do think it would help, and I was trying to come up with something in French just now and my mind went blank, which is exactly mon problème! J'ai appris à penser en anglais, mais le français échappe mon contrôle. Une fois que je commence, c'est plus facile traduire ceux que je veux dire entre l'anglais et le français, au lieu de l'italien.

I have no clue how I just did that.

[borax38]

On peut commencer petit. Est-ce que tu veux aussi que je te corrige quand tu dis quelque chose d'incorrect, ou est-ce que c'est un peu trop pour LJ qui est tout de même censé être amusant?

Le plus dur, de toute façon, c'est de se lancer!

[silvia_elisa]

Non, non! Corrige-moi!

J'ai dû chercher 'censé'. :) Mais je suis d'accord, même si ma tête travaille beaucoup plus que normal.

Question: comment dit-on 'keyboard'?

[borax38]

Ça se dit "clavier" (un peu comme en allemand, si tu en fais).

[silvia_elisa]

J'en faisais, au lycée. J'étais beacoup plus douée en allemand parce que je l'ai etudié dès l'école élémentaire, j'ai decouvert le français plus tard. Maintenant, on ne peut pas l'étudier au lycée, seulement dans le scuole medie, c'est à dire l'école entre 11 et 13 ans. :( L'espagnol est devenu plus important.

[borax38]

C'est bizzare. Je n'ai jamais entendu parler de langues qui s'étudient au collège et plus au lycée. C'est plutôt l'inverse chez nous (on a plus de choix de langues au lycée qu'au collège).

[silvia_elisa]

L'année dernière, le système scolaire a vu un éclatant altération. On enseigne l'anglais de l'école maternelle jusqu'à l'université par 'éduquer nos jeunes à s'élever dans un monde globalisé' :/ et le français ou l'allemand sont obligatoire au collège (est-ce que ça est le terme correct?).

Au lycée c'est l'anglais surtout, plus l'allemand et l'espagnol pour ceux qui étudient les langues. En 2001, quand je me suis inscrite au lycée, j'ai choisi le français, mais les chose changent vite en Italie. :)

[borax38]

En France, pour le cursus général, on est obligé d'apprendre deux langues étrangères. Les plus enseignées sont l'espagnol, l'italien et l'allemand. Vu qu'il y a énormément de partenariats entre la France et l'Allemagne, ce serait très mal vu de supprimer la langue au lycée. Pour les langues moins connues, ça dépend du lycée.

Pour les corrections :
-une éclatante altération (en général les mots en "tion" sont féminins)
-le collège ne veut pas dire la même chose qu'aux États-Unis, où il désigne l'université. En France, c'est l'école de 11 à 14 ans. C'est un peu compliqué!

[lara_everlong]

Une fois que je commence, c'est plus facile traduire ceux que je veux dire entre l'anglais et le français, au lieu de l'italien.

That's probably part of your problem - it's like you're translating twice, and something gets lost there.

How'd you learn to think in English?

Learning a language in a school setting is just... weird, and I have some mixed opinions on it (even though it's exactly what I'm doing right now). Your teacher I'm sure is right - if you spent six months in France, sure, you'd learn to think in French! How you, or I, or anyone else can learn to be that fluent without just totally submersing yourself in the language is beyond me

[silvia_elisa]

I am translating twice, unfortunately. Tiresome and non exactly helpful.

How'd you learn to think in English?

I don't have a real answer. I started learning English when I was 11, and the Internet at the time was almost completely in English, so I grabbed the dictionary and translated every single word. I paid attention in class because I needed the grammar, but by my twelfth birthday I had outgrown standard education. Things sort of evolved from there, and I think I stopped caring about school-English altogether in 2003 when I bought OotP in England

[lara_everlong]

On translating twice:

this is an interesting phenomena - it seems like it's something that a lot of people get stuck on - you know, first translating into your second language and then into whatever else you're trying to learn. Almost like your brain has trained itself to think "foreign language=English" (or whatever your second language might be) and MUST go through those pathways to get anywhere else.

In Italy I knew a Canadian girl. If you ask her she'd say she "knew" Italian but not that she "spoke" it. She did speak some, I mean, she had lived in Rome for the better part of a decade, and would regularly make pleasant chit-chat with people in Italian, but if she were going to have an actual conversation, it was in English or French. English was her first language, and French was her second (in Canada, everyone learns French in school) and she told me the exact same thing, that first she translates to French, and then to Italian

[silvia_elisa]

Spanish and Italian are so similar...

Funny, a lot of English people tell me the same thing, but we Italians find it a very difficult language! :D

Almost like your brain has trained itself to think "foreign language=English" (or whatever your second language might be) and MUST go through those pathways to get anywhere else.

How scientific of you. :) When you describe the process, it sounds even more laborious than it is inside my head. And the worst part is that once I go over it mentally, I have to do it all over again to actually voice the thought! I usually open my mouth, my neatly translated French sentence in mind, and... 'Well, as I - oh.'

I'll have to break the habit too...

ps. I'd hire you, not to be rude to your co-worker, but I am always highly suspicious of people with a language degree. Especially after seeing some of my classmates graduate... the obscenities I haven't heard...

[silvia_elisa]

where did my italics go??? ah, whatever, sorry!