The Doctor and River Song
Ok, so I still have lots of River/Doctor feelings from yesterday’s finale. I’ve tried to articulate them in this post, to try and get it out of my system! Not sure if it worked, but anyhoo!
So, I’ve been slowly becoming a River/Doctor shipper the last series and a half. It took a while, usually I ship straight away but these two slowly crept up on me. I think the turning point for me was learning she was not only a Pond (and immediately super duper awesome), but part Time Lord too! I have to confess two things. River did get on my nerves a bit, at the start of series 6. She just seemed a bit too awesome and clever and it seemed kinda strange to me. Of course, finding out her history made it all make sense, and I started liking her a lot more from there. I never disliked her, but I was getting a tad sick of her showing up so often for a while...
And I've never been able to ship the Doctor with anyone before. The whole human/alien, massive gaps in age/experience and the more "father" figure he always used to have kinda weirds me out too much. And seriously, why does the Doctor need a love interest? He’s awesome enough on his own - why do they have to throw a love story into everything!
But River being part Time Lord, off on all her own space and time adventures and just how much she knows... IDK, they just seem on much more equal footing now. And the Doctor is a different person with her, in a way. He’s kinda like a schoolboy getting a crush and it’s kinda sweet and endearing. And they have this interesting, kinda fun, almost already married relationship (which kinda makes sense, since they are in her timeline). And because her storyline is so tragic and as messed up as his, because she does the whole time/space travel Time Lord thing and understands it, and can be like an equal to him, it does add extra complexities and depth to his character now.
So yeah, I’ve been starting to ship it!
But now after that finale I’ve fallen HARD! I feel like I finally understand their messed up relationship and now I can see how glorious and epic it is. I think it was the actual proof this episode that he does love her - and probably has for a long, long time. I knew he cared for her a lot, but I was never quite sure if he was doing it all for her benefit or not. Even when he married her, I wasn't sure if it was only a "well ok then". But this episode shows how deeply he does love her. And it was heartbreaking and angsty, so of course I decided to start majorly shipping it, didn’t I. (One day, I swear I’ll find a happy ship!)
First of all, I loved that he finally called her his wife. I kinda felt like the Doctor wanted to forget that part before, but now he willingly admits it. And his sadness at her grave and saying she’s been dead a long time was heartbreaking. Then there was his line about having a back up plan for those close to you. I know it was Ten who hooked River up to the computer in the library, but I really think Ten realised how important River was going to be to him.
And can I just rewind a moment. It was so, so heartbreaking when the Doctor was talking about River. I know he agreed that she was his ex, but that is actually true, she’s his dead wife who he keeps on seeing everywhere. But the pain and sadness in his voice when he talked about her, when he did use the term "ex". GAH! Soooo heartbreaking. And then he started crying, over having to face his own death and go to his own grave, but also I swear over the memory of River Song too.
And then we have that wonderful, heartbreaking and completely awesome goodbye between them. I have to admit, I actually forgot the Doctor wasn’t supposed to be able to hear her, because it was kinda obvious he could. But hearing her is one thing, actually seeing her and being able to touch her is quite another. I didn’t expect that and was VERY happily surprised!
I mean, she’s still only an echo, a ghost, a memory, what you will. Yet his love for her was so strong that he MADE her real for him. And not only that, she’s always been there for him. And he’s tried to ignore her because he knows how much it’ll hurt him, opening up those wounds/memories. But he can’t forget her. And then he finally acknowledges her being there, always being there to him and basically admits how much he cares about her (something the Doctor so rarely does). And I knew then just how much he loves her. Why else would she haunt him so much? Guilt only takes it so far.
And to be quite honest, that was enough to turn me into a hardcore shipper, but then we have THAT KISS! I mean, that was one heck of a kiss! Very passionate for a Doctor Who episode! And I just ADORE the fact that the Doctor initiates it. It’s always been River who kisses him before. In fact, I can’t remember the Doctor actually initiating a romantic kiss with anyone before. Usually he just tries to escape as quickly as he can, flailing about!
But nope, here he kisses her and it’s just so hot and epic and awesome and, well, just amazing! He puts everything into that kiss!
And then when you think what led up to that kiss. How he’s been trying to deny she’s there for so long, and it all just gets too much and he HAS to kiss her, because he needs to. Not for her (which I always thought was the case before), but for him. There’s just so much pain and longing and sadness and joy in the way he kisses her. It’s just… GAH! Sorry, I just can’t with that kiss. It kills me every time I rewatch it, yet I can’t seem to stop! Eeek!
And a little nod to the wonderful joke after all that intensity! I really wish we could see what it did look like to his friends. I mean, he’s done some odd things, but kissing empty air I bet beats them all. And even after he realises just how embarrassing it is, he doesn’t let her go. I think he considers it, but he doesn’t actually care enough and all his thought and attention is back on River again. And I just love the way he caresses her face.
But then, gosh, it gets even more heartbreaking. Firstly there’s the way he looks at her after, the way he says her echo should have faded by now (but obviously it’s because the Doctor himself can’t quite let her go). And then he does say goodbye in the most epic way possible, by not really making it a goodbye. Because he hates endings and I think only River has ever really understood this about him. And then, as if everything wasn’t so bittersweet and painful enough, the knife had to go in that bit deeper didn’t it. With the “Goodbye Sweetie.” The saddest echo of her famous line there could ever be. But that’s not it, is it. Of course not. There was her “spoilers” line too, meaning there may just be more to come! Seriously, why do TV shows put us through this!
So yeah, sorry. I just adored that goodbye and thought the Doctor/River this episode was just so perfect! As I’ve said before, I kinda was never quite sure if the Doctor truly loved her, but now I know for certain. He does love her, and it just makes their story all the more heartbreaking! And that's why I now ship them so hard - because the Doctor is in love with her. In fact, I wonder if he's been in love with her for a long time now, but he kept it hidden away - as the Doctor does with bad memories/sadness/things he doesn't want to face.
I mean, just look at their first/last meeting - he sees her die! She knows all about him, sacrifices her life for him, and he’s never met her before. But he knows. I’m positive Ten realises just how important she will become to him. Whilst we don’t know (yet I hope) how River knows his name, we’ve always known it was a big deal that she did. And now we know it opens his tomb where someone can rewrite his entire life, you can kinda see why he just wouldn’t tell anyone. So I’ve always thought - even back in the library episodes - that it must be through some future romantic storyline with them. I’d always wondered if the name telling would only happen if he married her, so Ten knew that he would do at some point. But that’s proven to not be the case now. Still, the fact that she does know his name is a pretty big thing and I’m still sure it MUST be romantically linked - so Ten knew she would be incredibly important to him one day.
So yeah, we have a Ten, who has just watched this stranger die for him, who he realises is meant to become such an important part of his life. And he’s seen her die ok! I mean, gosh, that’s got to be tough. I even thought that back in the library episodes, when I didn’t have a clue about River Song. And now it all makes sense!
I mean, I always thought the Doctor was a bit cold with River at times, a bit too distant - but now we know why. He knew it would hurt him too much. He was trying to not get close to her because he knew how she died - that he would lose her and would have to say goodbye. Yet, he did fall in love with her anyway and it did hurt him. He kept on trying to run from her and his feelings, but it just didn’t work. And I didn’t quite realise all that until that goodbye scene and mulling it over afterwards.
And the 11th Doctor could never really say goodbye to River, because then she would know she wouldn’t see him again. She would know she was going to her death. So he could never really say goodbye, never just be with her without the knowledge of her future death hanging over him.
And this was River’s last goodbye too - because she never got one before. It wasn’t “her” Doctor that said goodbye in the library. And it could never be in the right way too, because he hadn’t fallen in love with her yet. So she ended her life never getting to properly say goodbye. No wonder she hung around as an echo. And she saw him, but thought he didn’t see her. She thought he’d forgotten her, didn’t care enough to come visit her any more (and it was obviously possible). I know she knew the Doctor hated endings and goodbyes, but it’s clear it wasn’t quite enough to compensate. And I think that’s why she was initially hostile with Clara a bit - she thought the Doctor really had stopped caring.
But of course, that wasn’t the case. He was avoiding her - as he had done for so long - because he knew it would hurt him (and her) too much. He was trying to protect them both. And she realised it then, that he’d never stopped loving her. And now her Doctor has finally said goodbye, finally expressed his true feelings and kissed her like that. So she is leaving, but with the bittersweet happiness of finally saying goodbye.
Which makes their story so, so tragic! I mean, they’re timelines have been going in such opposite directions for so long, it was never going to end well. But finally, this episode, they were both on the same page - their time lines finally met properly. And I don’t think the Doctor will ever find anyone more equal to him as she was, especially in that moment.
But GAH - That scene! It just gives me all these shippy heartbreaking feelings.
And now I wonder, is this the last we see of River Song? I do think it could be. It was a very final goodbye, especially with them choosing to show library/dead River Song, when all the other times she’s still been alive.
And it was so heartbreaking, if she just casually popped up again, it might kinda ruin things.
And I got the impression their crossing paths timeline was over. I mean, the Doctor said that she’s been dead a long time at her grave, and it was in such a heartbreaking way. I kinda think it meant he’s reached the point where he’s left her knowing she will now be going to that library to die. And that would explain just why the Doctor was so sad and heartbroken when he saw her. I mean, if they were still in the crossing paths stage, surely he wouldn’t be quite so sad…
So I do think after Amy and Rory became lost in time, him and River went on all their adventures together, culminating in their final meeting before she left for the library - and gosh, just how painful must that have been for the Doctor.
And it makes it even more painful when you realise that, if that’s the case, the dark times when he was in Victorian London wasn’t just about losing Amy and Rory, but losing all the Ponds - including the wife he loves. And I do think it’s interesting that it seemed to be only when he was in such a dark place that he noticed Clara for the first time. I don’t think there’s anything romantic about that, just interesting that it took him being at his most miserable to see her and everything she’d been doing/done for him. (In fact, if they now give us romantic Doctor/Clara, I will not be happy - for all the reasons I mentioned above about not liking shipping the Doctor with anyone!)
So, with that in mind, and with giving us fans such an epic goodbye scene, I kinda wonder if we have seen the last of River Song.
But I do hope she comes back - in an epic and proper way, not just for the sake of it. Because I don’t feel quite done with the Doctor/River storyline yet. There’s so many unanswered questions still surrounding her, still so many gaps in her timeline we just don’t know about.
And there are plenty of ways they could bring her back - I especially like the idea of Clara being in that library. Maybe there’s a way Clara finds to bring her back/rewrite that time period. And there was her line about spoilers at the end… I kinda like the theory that when the Doctor connected Clara to the TARDIS to get the coordinates, it either created River’s connection, through Clara, to the TARDIS, or created River’s connection, through the TARDIS, to Clara. And that was why she was still there when Clara was possibly dead in the Doctor’s timestream.
I think I would prefer for her to come back post library/this episode now, than for us to see a past, alive River. But I’ll take what I can get.
And just when did she get his sonic screwdriver anyway?
And I wanna know how she found out his name!
So, I’ve been slowly becoming a River/Doctor shipper the last series and a half. It took a while, usually I ship straight away but these two slowly crept up on me. I think the turning point for me was learning she was not only a Pond (and immediately super duper awesome), but part Time Lord too! I have to confess two things. River did get on my nerves a bit, at the start of series 6. She just seemed a bit too awesome and clever and it seemed kinda strange to me. Of course, finding out her history made it all make sense, and I started liking her a lot more from there. I never disliked her, but I was getting a tad sick of her showing up so often for a while...
And I've never been able to ship the Doctor with anyone before. The whole human/alien, massive gaps in age/experience and the more "father" figure he always used to have kinda weirds me out too much. And seriously, why does the Doctor need a love interest? He’s awesome enough on his own - why do they have to throw a love story into everything!
But River being part Time Lord, off on all her own space and time adventures and just how much she knows... IDK, they just seem on much more equal footing now. And the Doctor is a different person with her, in a way. He’s kinda like a schoolboy getting a crush and it’s kinda sweet and endearing. And they have this interesting, kinda fun, almost already married relationship (which kinda makes sense, since they are in her timeline). And because her storyline is so tragic and as messed up as his, because she does the whole time/space travel Time Lord thing and understands it, and can be like an equal to him, it does add extra complexities and depth to his character now.
So yeah, I’ve been starting to ship it!
But now after that finale I’ve fallen HARD! I feel like I finally understand their messed up relationship and now I can see how glorious and epic it is. I think it was the actual proof this episode that he does love her - and probably has for a long, long time. I knew he cared for her a lot, but I was never quite sure if he was doing it all for her benefit or not. Even when he married her, I wasn't sure if it was only a "well ok then". But this episode shows how deeply he does love her. And it was heartbreaking and angsty, so of course I decided to start majorly shipping it, didn’t I. (One day, I swear I’ll find a happy ship!)
First of all, I loved that he finally called her his wife. I kinda felt like the Doctor wanted to forget that part before, but now he willingly admits it. And his sadness at her grave and saying she’s been dead a long time was heartbreaking. Then there was his line about having a back up plan for those close to you. I know it was Ten who hooked River up to the computer in the library, but I really think Ten realised how important River was going to be to him.
And can I just rewind a moment. It was so, so heartbreaking when the Doctor was talking about River. I know he agreed that she was his ex, but that is actually true, she’s his dead wife who he keeps on seeing everywhere. But the pain and sadness in his voice when he talked about her, when he did use the term "ex". GAH! Soooo heartbreaking. And then he started crying, over having to face his own death and go to his own grave, but also I swear over the memory of River Song too.
And then we have that wonderful, heartbreaking and completely awesome goodbye between them. I have to admit, I actually forgot the Doctor wasn’t supposed to be able to hear her, because it was kinda obvious he could. But hearing her is one thing, actually seeing her and being able to touch her is quite another. I didn’t expect that and was VERY happily surprised!
I mean, she’s still only an echo, a ghost, a memory, what you will. Yet his love for her was so strong that he MADE her real for him. And not only that, she’s always been there for him. And he’s tried to ignore her because he knows how much it’ll hurt him, opening up those wounds/memories. But he can’t forget her. And then he finally acknowledges her being there, always being there to him and basically admits how much he cares about her (something the Doctor so rarely does). And I knew then just how much he loves her. Why else would she haunt him so much? Guilt only takes it so far.
And to be quite honest, that was enough to turn me into a hardcore shipper, but then we have THAT KISS! I mean, that was one heck of a kiss! Very passionate for a Doctor Who episode! And I just ADORE the fact that the Doctor initiates it. It’s always been River who kisses him before. In fact, I can’t remember the Doctor actually initiating a romantic kiss with anyone before. Usually he just tries to escape as quickly as he can, flailing about!
But nope, here he kisses her and it’s just so hot and epic and awesome and, well, just amazing! He puts everything into that kiss!
And then when you think what led up to that kiss. How he’s been trying to deny she’s there for so long, and it all just gets too much and he HAS to kiss her, because he needs to. Not for her (which I always thought was the case before), but for him. There’s just so much pain and longing and sadness and joy in the way he kisses her. It’s just… GAH! Sorry, I just can’t with that kiss. It kills me every time I rewatch it, yet I can’t seem to stop! Eeek!
And a little nod to the wonderful joke after all that intensity! I really wish we could see what it did look like to his friends. I mean, he’s done some odd things, but kissing empty air I bet beats them all. And even after he realises just how embarrassing it is, he doesn’t let her go. I think he considers it, but he doesn’t actually care enough and all his thought and attention is back on River again. And I just love the way he caresses her face.
But then, gosh, it gets even more heartbreaking. Firstly there’s the way he looks at her after, the way he says her echo should have faded by now (but obviously it’s because the Doctor himself can’t quite let her go). And then he does say goodbye in the most epic way possible, by not really making it a goodbye. Because he hates endings and I think only River has ever really understood this about him. And then, as if everything wasn’t so bittersweet and painful enough, the knife had to go in that bit deeper didn’t it. With the “Goodbye Sweetie.” The saddest echo of her famous line there could ever be. But that’s not it, is it. Of course not. There was her “spoilers” line too, meaning there may just be more to come! Seriously, why do TV shows put us through this!
So yeah, sorry. I just adored that goodbye and thought the Doctor/River this episode was just so perfect! As I’ve said before, I kinda was never quite sure if the Doctor truly loved her, but now I know for certain. He does love her, and it just makes their story all the more heartbreaking! And that's why I now ship them so hard - because the Doctor is in love with her. In fact, I wonder if he's been in love with her for a long time now, but he kept it hidden away - as the Doctor does with bad memories/sadness/things he doesn't want to face.
I mean, just look at their first/last meeting - he sees her die! She knows all about him, sacrifices her life for him, and he’s never met her before. But he knows. I’m positive Ten realises just how important she will become to him. Whilst we don’t know (yet I hope) how River knows his name, we’ve always known it was a big deal that she did. And now we know it opens his tomb where someone can rewrite his entire life, you can kinda see why he just wouldn’t tell anyone. So I’ve always thought - even back in the library episodes - that it must be through some future romantic storyline with them. I’d always wondered if the name telling would only happen if he married her, so Ten knew that he would do at some point. But that’s proven to not be the case now. Still, the fact that she does know his name is a pretty big thing and I’m still sure it MUST be romantically linked - so Ten knew she would be incredibly important to him one day.
So yeah, we have a Ten, who has just watched this stranger die for him, who he realises is meant to become such an important part of his life. And he’s seen her die ok! I mean, gosh, that’s got to be tough. I even thought that back in the library episodes, when I didn’t have a clue about River Song. And now it all makes sense!
I mean, I always thought the Doctor was a bit cold with River at times, a bit too distant - but now we know why. He knew it would hurt him too much. He was trying to not get close to her because he knew how she died - that he would lose her and would have to say goodbye. Yet, he did fall in love with her anyway and it did hurt him. He kept on trying to run from her and his feelings, but it just didn’t work. And I didn’t quite realise all that until that goodbye scene and mulling it over afterwards.
And the 11th Doctor could never really say goodbye to River, because then she would know she wouldn’t see him again. She would know she was going to her death. So he could never really say goodbye, never just be with her without the knowledge of her future death hanging over him.
And this was River’s last goodbye too - because she never got one before. It wasn’t “her” Doctor that said goodbye in the library. And it could never be in the right way too, because he hadn’t fallen in love with her yet. So she ended her life never getting to properly say goodbye. No wonder she hung around as an echo. And she saw him, but thought he didn’t see her. She thought he’d forgotten her, didn’t care enough to come visit her any more (and it was obviously possible). I know she knew the Doctor hated endings and goodbyes, but it’s clear it wasn’t quite enough to compensate. And I think that’s why she was initially hostile with Clara a bit - she thought the Doctor really had stopped caring.
But of course, that wasn’t the case. He was avoiding her - as he had done for so long - because he knew it would hurt him (and her) too much. He was trying to protect them both. And she realised it then, that he’d never stopped loving her. And now her Doctor has finally said goodbye, finally expressed his true feelings and kissed her like that. So she is leaving, but with the bittersweet happiness of finally saying goodbye.
Which makes their story so, so tragic! I mean, they’re timelines have been going in such opposite directions for so long, it was never going to end well. But finally, this episode, they were both on the same page - their time lines finally met properly. And I don’t think the Doctor will ever find anyone more equal to him as she was, especially in that moment.
But GAH - That scene! It just gives me all these shippy heartbreaking feelings.
And now I wonder, is this the last we see of River Song? I do think it could be. It was a very final goodbye, especially with them choosing to show library/dead River Song, when all the other times she’s still been alive.
And it was so heartbreaking, if she just casually popped up again, it might kinda ruin things.
And I got the impression their crossing paths timeline was over. I mean, the Doctor said that she’s been dead a long time at her grave, and it was in such a heartbreaking way. I kinda think it meant he’s reached the point where he’s left her knowing she will now be going to that library to die. And that would explain just why the Doctor was so sad and heartbroken when he saw her. I mean, if they were still in the crossing paths stage, surely he wouldn’t be quite so sad…
So I do think after Amy and Rory became lost in time, him and River went on all their adventures together, culminating in their final meeting before she left for the library - and gosh, just how painful must that have been for the Doctor.
And it makes it even more painful when you realise that, if that’s the case, the dark times when he was in Victorian London wasn’t just about losing Amy and Rory, but losing all the Ponds - including the wife he loves. And I do think it’s interesting that it seemed to be only when he was in such a dark place that he noticed Clara for the first time. I don’t think there’s anything romantic about that, just interesting that it took him being at his most miserable to see her and everything she’d been doing/done for him. (In fact, if they now give us romantic Doctor/Clara, I will not be happy - for all the reasons I mentioned above about not liking shipping the Doctor with anyone!)
So, with that in mind, and with giving us fans such an epic goodbye scene, I kinda wonder if we have seen the last of River Song.
But I do hope she comes back - in an epic and proper way, not just for the sake of it. Because I don’t feel quite done with the Doctor/River storyline yet. There’s so many unanswered questions still surrounding her, still so many gaps in her timeline we just don’t know about.
And there are plenty of ways they could bring her back - I especially like the idea of Clara being in that library. Maybe there’s a way Clara finds to bring her back/rewrite that time period. And there was her line about spoilers at the end… I kinda like the theory that when the Doctor connected Clara to the TARDIS to get the coordinates, it either created River’s connection, through Clara, to the TARDIS, or created River’s connection, through the TARDIS, to Clara. And that was why she was still there when Clara was possibly dead in the Doctor’s timestream.
I think I would prefer for her to come back post library/this episode now, than for us to see a past, alive River. But I’ll take what I can get.
And just when did she get his sonic screwdriver anyway?
And I wanna know how she found out his name!