Three Posts In One Day? I Must Have Too Much Time On My Hands--JAPANESE POST
This is all about Japanese.
Okay. I encountered an interesting problem today when I was explaining how to break up a sentence in Japanese written in Japanese. Unlike in written English, where we consciously break up our words, Japanese is written as humans speak--that is with no noticeable breaks between words. You may think, as a native speaker of English, that it's easy to tell when one English word ends and another begins, but it's not so. To a non-native speaker we talk like this: itsasifourwordsallblendtogether withonlypausesbetweenourwordswherepunctuationis thatshowsentences andourpunctuationareheard evenfornonnativespeakers.
In Japanese, however, they don't do that. Oh, sure, there are some places that'll break it up, and learning books are a great example of that. But, in general, they read like this:
なんで朝も早よからこんなトコでぎゅうぎゅう詰まってなきゃなんねえんだよ！！！巻き寿司みたいによ！
(taken from Kobato, Vol. 1, page 4)
So, how do I know that this breaks up as:
Nande asa mo hayo kara konna toko de gyuu-gyuu tsumatte-nakya nan nee n'da yo!!! Makizushi (Maki Sushi) mitai ni yo!
(My translation: So tell me why the hell have we been crammed into this THING since early this morning?! We're like maki sushi!)
And not any other combination of the words?
Well...that's hard to explain. It's not just that I've been around Japanese for 8+ years now, though that's part of it. But, I'm not fluent even in spoken Japanese. There are loads of words I don't know. But...I do know almost all of the basics, like the particles and such. But, see, Ioryougi speaks with a strange accent, one I'm totally unfamiliar with (it may be Osaka-ben, but I don't think so...it could be really masculine rough Osaka-ben, 'cause THAT I'm definitely not familiar with, since he doesn't seem to speak the same way as Kero-chan). But, I can still tell where all the words start and stop. Why?
My real answer? "Cause that's what it should be." XD I really have no easy answer. Kanji helps, because obviously there are certain rules about kanji and how they make up words and such (so you shouldn't combine any part of "nande" with "asa" like "nan deasa" because the kanji there starts a new word). But, even if you give me a string of romaji, I can break it up into the proper words, like when I look at song lyrics that people haven't broken up entirely. I can even tell you with about 95% accuracy what the root of a verb is and what ending has been tacked on even if I'm NOT familiar with EITHER the verb OR the conjugated end.
But, I can also say that it mostly just makes sense. For another example, where the author put in spaces inside a sentence, it's like the equivalent of a comma. You're meant to sort of pause, even though it's part of one sentence. But, that break doesn't break up the two pieces!
でも でも！ なんだか こう隠れて相談したほうが秘密っぽいっていうか楽しそうっていうか！
Demo demo! Nan da ka (,) kou kakurete soudan shita hou ga himitsu-ppoi tte iu ka tanoshi sou tte iu ka!
Now, how do I know those two "tte" is "tte" on its own and not "himitsu-ppo itte" and "so utte"? Well. THAT is just knowledge of Japanese, pure and simple. I'd never read the ending "-ppoi" before this, but I knew with absolute certainty that it attached to "himitsu" as "ppoi" and that the following "tte" was the "tte" that means...well, I guess "seems like" or "that thing called/known as." It's the same "tte" that you hear when someone is referring to someone someone else said. It can be pronounced as "te" or in it's original more polite form "to" but you will see/hear "tte" after certain things. I didn't even need to know what Kobato was saying here to understand that she was using the phrase "te iu ka" or "tte iu ka" as "seems like/sort of like/that thing called." This actually alludes to the fact that Kobato seems to have no real practical knowledge of Earth and it's ways, so when she's saying "himitsu-ppoi tte iu ka" and such, it's like she's saying, "It's like what I've heard called a "secret" or something!" It sort of implies that this is her idea of a secret given what she's heard other people say about it. XD
(A translation of mine would read something like: But but! Somehow, getting advice in a concealed place (like this) it feels more like a Secret or like something fun! OR But, but! It’s like a secret, or like something fun, if we talk about things somewhat hidden away like this!)
Also, you can see it in other places, like when it even starts a thought like:
って 誰が臨時のバイトになれと言ったー！
-tte dare ga rinji no baito ni nare to itta~!
(Translation: Who the hell said for you to become the new part-timer, eh?!)
Where this -tte comes from the fact that he's alluding to the fact that he told her just before to show him her "Food Common Sense." He meant one thing, and Kobato took it to mean that she should help out and fill in for the part-time worker who had to leave early. So, that first little -tte is sort of like, "So I said (show me your common sense) BUT! Who said to become the new part-time worker?"
It's an interesting question of skill. But, I'm at a loss on how to explain or teach someone else how to do it. Mostly because the first thought that comes into my head is "Uh, just...do it? XD" when I want to attempt to explain where the breaks are. The words are just...there. It doesn't make any sense to break them up any other way.
Not to say that I'm perfect at this. There are times when I've read a sentence at first, particular a complicated one, and read it through with the wrong breaks before. But...well, then I'll read through it a second time and realize the proper order. It's more like I get tired, or I get momentarily misled by something and add it to the wrong part, which then throws off the sentence. And like even native speakers, sometimes I have to pause and really think about whether or not that "ha" is "wa" the topic particle or "ha" as in "hazu" or such. Usually it's obvious, but...sometimes...you just have to keep an eye open.
So, as I continue to go about reading Kobato (which I've translated half of previously, making it even easier for me to just go on through it), I'll try to see if there's anything that's going on in my head that allows me to know when to break the words up. But, I'm pretty sure I won't discover anything.
In the meantime, most of my reading is just pointing out to me how many kanji I don't know yet. It feels mildly discouraging, but I'll keep at it. Kobato is probably the easiest in terms of reading because there aren't a lot of bubbles per page, and there isn't a lot of written per bubble. It gives me less of a headache than other mangas I have. ._.
Anyway. Back to reading!
Okay. I encountered an interesting problem today when I was explaining how to break up a sentence in Japanese written in Japanese. Unlike in written English, where we consciously break up our words, Japanese is written as humans speak--that is with no noticeable breaks between words. You may think, as a native speaker of English, that it's easy to tell when one English word ends and another begins, but it's not so. To a non-native speaker we talk like this: itsasifourwordsallblendtogether withonlypausesbetweenourwordswherepunctuationis thatshowsentences andourpunctuationareheard evenfornonnativespeakers.
In Japanese, however, they don't do that. Oh, sure, there are some places that'll break it up, and learning books are a great example of that. But, in general, they read like this:
なんで朝も早よからこんなトコでぎゅうぎゅう詰まってなきゃなんねえんだよ！！！巻き寿司みたいによ！
(taken from Kobato, Vol. 1, page 4)
So, how do I know that this breaks up as:
Nande asa mo hayo kara konna toko de gyuu-gyuu tsumatte-nakya nan nee n'da yo!!! Makizushi (Maki Sushi) mitai ni yo!
(My translation: So tell me why the hell have we been crammed into this THING since early this morning?! We're like maki sushi!)
And not any other combination of the words?
Well...that's hard to explain. It's not just that I've been around Japanese for 8+ years now, though that's part of it. But, I'm not fluent even in spoken Japanese. There are loads of words I don't know. But...I do know almost all of the basics, like the particles and such. But, see, Ioryougi speaks with a strange accent, one I'm totally unfamiliar with (it may be Osaka-ben, but I don't think so...it could be really masculine rough Osaka-ben, 'cause THAT I'm definitely not familiar with, since he doesn't seem to speak the same way as Kero-chan). But, I can still tell where all the words start and stop. Why?
My real answer? "Cause that's what it should be." XD I really have no easy answer. Kanji helps, because obviously there are certain rules about kanji and how they make up words and such (so you shouldn't combine any part of "nande" with "asa" like "nan deasa" because the kanji there starts a new word). But, even if you give me a string of romaji, I can break it up into the proper words, like when I look at song lyrics that people haven't broken up entirely. I can even tell you with about 95% accuracy what the root of a verb is and what ending has been tacked on even if I'm NOT familiar with EITHER the verb OR the conjugated end.
But, I can also say that it mostly just makes sense. For another example, where the author put in spaces inside a sentence, it's like the equivalent of a comma. You're meant to sort of pause, even though it's part of one sentence. But, that break doesn't break up the two pieces!
でも でも！ なんだか こう隠れて相談したほうが秘密っぽいっていうか楽しそうっていうか！
Demo demo! Nan da ka (,) kou kakurete soudan shita hou ga himitsu-ppoi tte iu ka tanoshi sou tte iu ka!
Now, how do I know those two "tte" is "tte" on its own and not "himitsu-ppo itte" and "so utte"? Well. THAT is just knowledge of Japanese, pure and simple. I'd never read the ending "-ppoi" before this, but I knew with absolute certainty that it attached to "himitsu" as "ppoi" and that the following "tte" was the "tte" that means...well, I guess "seems like" or "that thing called/known as." It's the same "tte" that you hear when someone is referring to someone someone else said. It can be pronounced as "te" or in it's original more polite form "to" but you will see/hear "tte" after certain things. I didn't even need to know what Kobato was saying here to understand that she was using the phrase "te iu ka" or "tte iu ka" as "seems like/sort of like/that thing called." This actually alludes to the fact that Kobato seems to have no real practical knowledge of Earth and it's ways, so when she's saying "himitsu-ppoi tte iu ka" and such, it's like she's saying, "It's like what I've heard called a "secret" or something!" It sort of implies that this is her idea of a secret given what she's heard other people say about it. XD
(A translation of mine would read something like: But but! Somehow, getting advice in a concealed place (like this) it feels more like a Secret or like something fun! OR But, but! It’s like a secret, or like something fun, if we talk about things somewhat hidden away like this!)
Also, you can see it in other places, like when it even starts a thought like:
って 誰が臨時のバイトになれと言ったー！
-tte dare ga rinji no baito ni nare to itta~!
(Translation: Who the hell said for you to become the new part-timer, eh?!)
Where this -tte comes from the fact that he's alluding to the fact that he told her just before to show him her "Food Common Sense." He meant one thing, and Kobato took it to mean that she should help out and fill in for the part-time worker who had to leave early. So, that first little -tte is sort of like, "So I said (show me your common sense) BUT! Who said to become the new part-time worker?"
It's an interesting question of skill. But, I'm at a loss on how to explain or teach someone else how to do it. Mostly because the first thought that comes into my head is "Uh, just...do it? XD" when I want to attempt to explain where the breaks are. The words are just...there. It doesn't make any sense to break them up any other way.
Not to say that I'm perfect at this. There are times when I've read a sentence at first, particular a complicated one, and read it through with the wrong breaks before. But...well, then I'll read through it a second time and realize the proper order. It's more like I get tired, or I get momentarily misled by something and add it to the wrong part, which then throws off the sentence. And like even native speakers, sometimes I have to pause and really think about whether or not that "ha" is "wa" the topic particle or "ha" as in "hazu" or such. Usually it's obvious, but...sometimes...you just have to keep an eye open.
So, as I continue to go about reading Kobato (which I've translated half of previously, making it even easier for me to just go on through it), I'll try to see if there's anything that's going on in my head that allows me to know when to break the words up. But, I'm pretty sure I won't discover anything.
In the meantime, most of my reading is just pointing out to me how many kanji I don't know yet. It feels mildly discouraging, but I'll keep at it. Kobato is probably the easiest in terms of reading because there aren't a lot of bubbles per page, and there isn't a lot of written per bubble. It gives me less of a headache than other mangas I have. ._.
Anyway. Back to reading!