idle musing
So which of the old classic, politics-heavy epic fantasy game franchises have screwed over their fanbase the most?
(Fire Emblem, Ogre Saga, Suikoden... I guess I'll toss in Final Fantasy Tactics and TearRing Saga/Berwick Saga as creators' offshoots.)
(This is a partly sarcastic post.)
1. Yasumi Matsuno games
Ogre Saga: This is what brought on this post, as I recently started playing through the PSP remake of Let Us Cling Together. Which is awesome and does pretty much everything a remake should do. (Though I should confess here that I never finished the original.) The orchestrated/rearranged soundtrack should be noted in particular, as it is pretty AMAZING. I find myself lingering on menu screens sometimes just to listen... (Favorites so far: A Cygnet, Theme of Black Knight, Chivalry and Savagery, Warren Report)
Of all the franchises, the Ogre series is probably the most hardcore, not just in terms of gameplay -- the political worldbuilding is really dense and not at all helped by inconsistent translations over the years across different games. It's one of those franchises I've really had to take in really slowly over the years.
I mean, just check out the narrated PSP prologue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ITJ9V4byEw -- you're just kind of tossed right into this heavy mix from the start. XD
(This is on par with Berwick Saga and Suikoden III as one of my favorite game prologues/openings in terms of "stuff that gets me hyped"... though I haven't played either of those. :P)
I have only completely finished Knight of Lodis (the GBA "side story"), in fact, which is by far THE most lightweight of the games I've poked at, and yet still pretty politically complex. (And I deliberately played the non-canon route, which is arguably the "simplistic" version.) I've also played about halfway through the very very original Ogre Battle (March of the Black Queen) -- which, much like Star Wars, is actually Episode V -- but that was years ago and I never got around to finishing (but intend to).
In fact, as I understand it, this is the chronological order of the franchise:
- Knight of Lodis is a side story prequel to Let Us Cling Together detailing the backstory of a certain character.
- Prince of Zenobia is a side story taking place slightly before/concurrently with March of the Black Queen.
- Episode V: March of the Black Queen
- Episode VI: Person of Lordly Caliber (actually released third but takes place concurrently with Episode VII)
- Episode VII: Let Us Cling Together
Aaaaaand the series has pretty much stalled since then, despite the games obviously setting up a grand finale that ties everything together (the series was supposedly planned for eight episodes). /cry
On the other hand, they DID do an amazing job with the LUCT remake, soooo I can't entirely write off the franchise yet....
Final Fantasy Tactics: I have also never finished the original, but I was pretty much at endgame (stalled and got bored with sidequests like recruiting Cloud, lmao).
This is a weirder franchise, as the Tactics Advance games are stupid (despite using the same gameplay; or at least the first one was silly), whereas the original FFT is essentially fantasy War of the Roses.
(I think Ogre Battle is much superior to FFT, but they share obvious stylistic similarities.)
Ivalice: Y'know, I still haven't actually finished Vagrant Story either, LOL, so I can't tell if there's some sort of meta-arc going on with that world, though I've seen some discussion on it. Either way, we're still not left HANGING in quite the same way we are with Ogre Battle... -_-
What's up with him now...: Well, as I posted last year, he resorted to Kickstarter for his most recent venture, Unsung Story, which I have been pretty hyped for. Alas, like most crowdsourced stuff, it's currently rather stalllllled.
2. Shouzou Kaga games
Fire Emblem: Well, he mainly had a hand in the first five games, which we know now are part of the same universe (though 1-3 are part of one narrative and 4-5 are another narrative.)
Of all the franchises, I think this is arguably the most successful one. But it's also the one that's strayed furthest from its roots at this point, for better or for worse. And at least the narrative arcs are more or less complete, which is more than I can say for the other franchises.... :P
However, from what I remember of the designer's notes for the Jugdral games (4-5) it seems like there was a LOT more unused material/concepts floating around. I'm thinking in particular of the missing/discarded third arc of Jugdral... and the dangling plot points about secretly royal!Feena and miscellaneous dragon tribes from 1-3.
Post-Jugdral the games are less politically complex (FE8 is especially bad on this count), though there's still enough going on to make things interesting.
TearRing Saga: The plot/worldbuilding here is what makes me wonder where the FE series would have evolved had Kaga stayed. (That said, I'm not done with this game either. I am very bad at finishing games.)
Obviously, IP issues meant that he couldn't really continue with this despite the tweaks that are already present....
Berwick Saga: I'm clueless about the plot (because I still have this half-baked idea that I might play it someday), but the game's subtitle does say "Lazberia Chronicle Chapter 174" :P
What's up with him now...: Apparently, he's trying to make an F2P doujin game now. :')
Should be interesting to see what he comes up with though! Mostly I'm just happy to see him creating again; even when flawed his stuff is really interesting.
3. Suikoden
I'm not sure this franchise is anyone's brainchild in particular, but I'm not quite as familiar with the designers involved. I do know that like the other two designers, Yoshitaka Murayama started the franchise and left the company a few games in.
And so we have five games roughly covering a continuous narrative arc (the first three moving the timeline forward, and the last two basically being prequels) with a handful of side story spinoffs, but now apparently going in a different direction like FE with the two latest games (Tierkreis and Tsumugareshi Hyakunen no Toki). I happened to like Tierkreis just fine, but also like FE the games seem to be trending away from their roots and more toward "mainstream appeal". The latest game seems especially bad just from the synopsis (which is probably an unfair way of judging, esp. since I despise time travel, but.)
Like Ogre Battle, the main games seemed to have been building up to a grand finale, but...
Sadtimes.
- - -
(I feel like it's somewhat telling that both Matsuno and Kaga have essentially resorted to appealing directly to the fanbase.)
(Apparently Xenogears is another one of those "left hanging" franchises that spun off in a different/more commercial direction.)
(Weirdly, or perhaps not so weirdly, Fire Emblem is the one franchise that has managed to stray from its roots and yet pick up a strong alternate fanbase/maintain enough old fans to be stupidly successful. Suikoden completely alienated its original fanbase and hasn't seemed to be able to revive it.)
In fact, the only really lengthy complete story arc I'm aware of is actually Front Mission (five game episodes and a lot of supplementary material). Which is mecha. And really good. But not fantasy.
I'm not sure which franchise I'm saddest about. I'm kind of resigned to FE, I think. The Ogre Saga is sadistic enough (and Matsuno enough of a big name) that I think it actually has a decent chance of seeing a revival someday, esp. now that gritty fantasy like Game of Thrones (and the Bioware games I guess...) is popular, and since both FFT and LUCT got those really polished PSP remakes.
Suikoden, IDK. I'm just glad I still have games in the franchise left to enjoy. And like I said, Tierkreis was actually pretty enjoyable, so I don't think the franchise is past the point of salvaging...
(Seriously though, the Ogre series is not kind. XD I mentioned earlier that I played the non-canon route for Knight of Lodis? Because that's the only one that gives you anything resembling a happy ending [and, having spoiled myself, there was one particular character I wanted to keep alive, hahahaha]. A little too convenient though; the canon ending has much better writing, but is pretty cruel. And LUCT is pretty famous for having three routes [and three major ending variations that actually aren't route-dependent from what I can tell], all of which are interesting in their own right, and deliberately designed so that there is no obvious canon, and people die/you make morally complex choices in all three.)
Aaaaand this reminds me that I STILL haven't typed up that "views of history"/historical narrative analysis about Ogre/FFT/FE/Suikoden yet.... Maybe in another few years...........
I need to fix my tags too, I haven't cleaned up this journal in ages.... meh. Too lazy.
comments at the original Dreamwidth post
(Fire Emblem, Ogre Saga, Suikoden... I guess I'll toss in Final Fantasy Tactics and TearRing Saga/Berwick Saga as creators' offshoots.)
(This is a partly sarcastic post.)
1. Yasumi Matsuno games
Ogre Saga: This is what brought on this post, as I recently started playing through the PSP remake of Let Us Cling Together. Which is awesome and does pretty much everything a remake should do. (Though I should confess here that I never finished the original.) The orchestrated/rearranged soundtrack should be noted in particular, as it is pretty AMAZING. I find myself lingering on menu screens sometimes just to listen... (Favorites so far: A Cygnet, Theme of Black Knight, Chivalry and Savagery, Warren Report)
Of all the franchises, the Ogre series is probably the most hardcore, not just in terms of gameplay -- the political worldbuilding is really dense and not at all helped by inconsistent translations over the years across different games. It's one of those franchises I've really had to take in really slowly over the years.
I mean, just check out the narrated PSP prologue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ITJ9V4byEw -- you're just kind of tossed right into this heavy mix from the start. XD
(This is on par with Berwick Saga and Suikoden III as one of my favorite game prologues/openings in terms of "stuff that gets me hyped"... though I haven't played either of those. :P)
I have only completely finished Knight of Lodis (the GBA "side story"), in fact, which is by far THE most lightweight of the games I've poked at, and yet still pretty politically complex. (And I deliberately played the non-canon route, which is arguably the "simplistic" version.) I've also played about halfway through the very very original Ogre Battle (March of the Black Queen) -- which, much like Star Wars, is actually Episode V -- but that was years ago and I never got around to finishing (but intend to).
In fact, as I understand it, this is the chronological order of the franchise:
- Knight of Lodis is a side story prequel to Let Us Cling Together detailing the backstory of a certain character.
- Prince of Zenobia is a side story taking place slightly before/concurrently with March of the Black Queen.
- Episode V: March of the Black Queen
- Episode VI: Person of Lordly Caliber (actually released third but takes place concurrently with Episode VII)
- Episode VII: Let Us Cling Together
Aaaaaand the series has pretty much stalled since then, despite the games obviously setting up a grand finale that ties everything together (the series was supposedly planned for eight episodes). /cry
On the other hand, they DID do an amazing job with the LUCT remake, soooo I can't entirely write off the franchise yet....
Final Fantasy Tactics: I have also never finished the original, but I was pretty much at endgame (stalled and got bored with sidequests like recruiting Cloud, lmao).
This is a weirder franchise, as the Tactics Advance games are stupid (despite using the same gameplay; or at least the first one was silly), whereas the original FFT is essentially fantasy War of the Roses.
(I think Ogre Battle is much superior to FFT, but they share obvious stylistic similarities.)
Ivalice: Y'know, I still haven't actually finished Vagrant Story either, LOL, so I can't tell if there's some sort of meta-arc going on with that world, though I've seen some discussion on it. Either way, we're still not left HANGING in quite the same way we are with Ogre Battle... -_-
What's up with him now...: Well, as I posted last year, he resorted to Kickstarter for his most recent venture, Unsung Story, which I have been pretty hyped for. Alas, like most crowdsourced stuff, it's currently rather stalllllled.
2. Shouzou Kaga games
Fire Emblem: Well, he mainly had a hand in the first five games, which we know now are part of the same universe (though 1-3 are part of one narrative and 4-5 are another narrative.)
Of all the franchises, I think this is arguably the most successful one. But it's also the one that's strayed furthest from its roots at this point, for better or for worse. And at least the narrative arcs are more or less complete, which is more than I can say for the other franchises.... :P
However, from what I remember of the designer's notes for the Jugdral games (4-5) it seems like there was a LOT more unused material/concepts floating around. I'm thinking in particular of the missing/discarded third arc of Jugdral... and the dangling plot points about secretly royal!Feena and miscellaneous dragon tribes from 1-3.
Post-Jugdral the games are less politically complex (FE8 is especially bad on this count), though there's still enough going on to make things interesting.
TearRing Saga: The plot/worldbuilding here is what makes me wonder where the FE series would have evolved had Kaga stayed. (That said, I'm not done with this game either. I am very bad at finishing games.)
Obviously, IP issues meant that he couldn't really continue with this despite the tweaks that are already present....
Berwick Saga: I'm clueless about the plot (because I still have this half-baked idea that I might play it someday), but the game's subtitle does say "Lazberia Chronicle Chapter 174" :P
What's up with him now...: Apparently, he's trying to make an F2P doujin game now. :')
Should be interesting to see what he comes up with though! Mostly I'm just happy to see him creating again; even when flawed his stuff is really interesting.
3. Suikoden
I'm not sure this franchise is anyone's brainchild in particular, but I'm not quite as familiar with the designers involved. I do know that like the other two designers, Yoshitaka Murayama started the franchise and left the company a few games in.
And so we have five games roughly covering a continuous narrative arc (the first three moving the timeline forward, and the last two basically being prequels) with a handful of side story spinoffs, but now apparently going in a different direction like FE with the two latest games (Tierkreis and Tsumugareshi Hyakunen no Toki). I happened to like Tierkreis just fine, but also like FE the games seem to be trending away from their roots and more toward "mainstream appeal". The latest game seems especially bad just from the synopsis (which is probably an unfair way of judging, esp. since I despise time travel, but.)
Like Ogre Battle, the main games seemed to have been building up to a grand finale, but...
Sadtimes.
- - -
(I feel like it's somewhat telling that both Matsuno and Kaga have essentially resorted to appealing directly to the fanbase.)
(Apparently Xenogears is another one of those "left hanging" franchises that spun off in a different/more commercial direction.)
(Weirdly, or perhaps not so weirdly, Fire Emblem is the one franchise that has managed to stray from its roots and yet pick up a strong alternate fanbase/maintain enough old fans to be stupidly successful. Suikoden completely alienated its original fanbase and hasn't seemed to be able to revive it.)
In fact, the only really lengthy complete story arc I'm aware of is actually Front Mission (five game episodes and a lot of supplementary material). Which is mecha. And really good. But not fantasy.
I'm not sure which franchise I'm saddest about. I'm kind of resigned to FE, I think. The Ogre Saga is sadistic enough (and Matsuno enough of a big name) that I think it actually has a decent chance of seeing a revival someday, esp. now that gritty fantasy like Game of Thrones (and the Bioware games I guess...) is popular, and since both FFT and LUCT got those really polished PSP remakes.
Suikoden, IDK. I'm just glad I still have games in the franchise left to enjoy. And like I said, Tierkreis was actually pretty enjoyable, so I don't think the franchise is past the point of salvaging...
(Seriously though, the Ogre series is not kind. XD I mentioned earlier that I played the non-canon route for Knight of Lodis? Because that's the only one that gives you anything resembling a happy ending [and, having spoiled myself, there was one particular character I wanted to keep alive, hahahaha]. A little too convenient though; the canon ending has much better writing, but is pretty cruel. And LUCT is pretty famous for having three routes [and three major ending variations that actually aren't route-dependent from what I can tell], all of which are interesting in their own right, and deliberately designed so that there is no obvious canon, and people die/you make morally complex choices in all three.)
Aaaaand this reminds me that I STILL haven't typed up that "views of history"/historical narrative analysis about Ogre/FFT/FE/Suikoden yet.... Maybe in another few years...........
I need to fix my tags too, I haven't cleaned up this journal in ages.... meh. Too lazy.
comments at the original Dreamwidth post