Yeah, I was thinking along similar lines. I don't mind the implication that the attraction was strong early on (In fact, I quite like it), but it did cause me to reevaluate my personal little fanon.
Having just recently become a fan in the past few months and literally inhaling episodes, my feeling is that if they weren't sleeping together prior to "Cyberwoman" they were damned CLOSE to it. Jack's reactions spoke of a betrayed lover.
I will admit that the first time I saw "Cyberwoman" I just assumed it was the betrayal of a trusted team mate and friend, so much so that I missed the kiss and honestly thought it WAS just CPR! gauuuck! *so embarrassed*
But having watched the ep again multiple times... no, I think they were sexually involved at that point, and I'm leaning towards Ianto being the agressor, to keep Jack off track of Lisa being hidden in the basement.
Sorry for rambling on... I love discussion like this!
I agree. I saw the first season a bit out of order, so that might have affected my thinking, but originally, I thought there was an attraction that had not been acted upon until after "Small Worlds" (probably closer to GBG).
But now that we have "Fragments" for context, Jack's reactions take on a totally different spin. After rewatching most of season one, I think Jack's feelings for Ianto were much more intense early on than I had previously thought, and it was Ianto that was the emotional holdout. I'm not necessarily saying Jack was out and out in love with Ianto during the first season. But I definitely think he had an emotional investment before Ianto had one.
No worries about ramblings. I love discussions like this, too! :)
But now that we have "Fragments" for context, Jack's reactions take on a totally different spin. After rewatching most of season one, I think Jack's feelings for Ianto were much more intense early on than I had previously thought, and it was Ianto that was the emotional holdout. I'm not necessarily saying Jack was out and out in love with Ianto during the first season. But I definitely think he had an emotional investment before Ianto had one.
I never thought about that, but I like your point of view on that!! I'll definately give it another thought!! ;-)
btw, about adding each other? I'd love to have one more passionate TW fan on my flist, to talk about our boys until our heads spin . . . *gg* ;-)
I think it depends what day of the week you ask me on. My fangirl heart wants to say they started sleeping together before the show started. But I voted other - Purely because my logic is a bit fuzzy and, like I said, I'm usually torn.
Purely because I think that they got closer and eventually crossed that line between friends/lovers between Small Worlds and Greeks Bearing Gifts.
In my ideal world, they got closer after Small Worlds - when Ianto is the Only one who will talk to Jack - and had some fondling/kissing before Countrycide. But after Ianto's brush with the Cannibals, is when I think Jack realised 'I don't want to lose him without having done something about what I feel'.
See, I was thinking something like what you're suggesting originally. I generally put their first encounter after Tosh overheard Ianto's depressive thoughts in GBG, but otherwise, I pretty much agree with everything you just said. After rewatching part of season one with "Fragments" in mind, though, I've started rethinking things. I don't know. Having them physically involved before "Cyberwoman" would certainly put a new spin on things.
It really does depend on what day of the week it is or what mood I'm in. There are sometimes where I'm positive the stopwatch come on was the first time they went below the waist. But, like you say, watching Fragments kinda makes you go, "hmmm... I wonder..."
It would be fun to write little ficlets for each 'what if scenario', just to see which one works best - and now I'm giving myself ideas. Damn it.
For what it is worth, Gareth says it was going on from the very beginning (in his opinion, but I guess he has a little insight into it, lol). It would explain Jack taking Cyberwoman so personally, too....
It's quite possible, and I don't mind that idea at all. For kicks a few days ago, I rewatched "Fragments," "Cyberwoman," "Small Worlds," and "Countrycide." With "Fragments" as context, Jack's reactions in the other episodes take on a new context.
Actually he has contradicted himself there. On his official page is a Q&A done just shortly after the wrapping up of the second season. He says in there Q: Do you think Ianto wanted Jack from the start in Torchwood? A: If he did, he didn't know it himself. Maybe the sense of something was always there, but it took some time for it to become clear in his mind. There's stuff in Episode Twelve of Season Two that gives a hint.In his early interviews he said that Jack and Ianto didn't do anything early on, that there was attraction. It is only after GDL discovered the wonders of Janot smut that he has been making these comments about things going on from the beginning, often to an audience where he knows there are fanfic writers in attendance
( ... )
I have read those Q and As as well. (eta: he may have not said so on purpose since it was before episodes aired; we all know the TW and Who actors, crew, etc are masters of sidestepping, backtracking, and flatout fibbing. LOL)
I do recall a story on set of one of the actors asking RTD very early on if he was meant to be shagging another character (presumably this was Jack and Ianto) and RTD didn't answer him. At the very least it was a possibility based on subtext that one of the actors picked up on.
Doubt we will ever know the official line, though, and that is fine. I interpret it the way GDL has been of late. Ianto making a move to protect his secret. GDL could have reevaluated based on new information as the characters got more fleshed out. I personally cannot fathom TKKS as the first overture; judging by the poll, there are many different perspectives and all have their own arguments in favor and against.
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I will admit that the first time I saw "Cyberwoman" I just assumed it was the betrayal of a trusted team mate and friend, so much so that I missed the kiss and honestly thought it WAS just CPR! gauuuck! *so embarrassed*
But having watched the ep again multiple times... no, I think they were sexually involved at that point, and I'm leaning towards Ianto being the agressor, to keep Jack off track of Lisa being hidden in the basement.
Sorry for rambling on... I love discussion like this!
*blushes*
Best regards,
Paige
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I agree. I saw the first season a bit out of order, so that might have affected my thinking, but originally, I thought there was an attraction that had not been acted upon until after "Small Worlds" (probably closer to GBG).
But now that we have "Fragments" for context, Jack's reactions take on a totally different spin. After rewatching most of season one, I think Jack's feelings for Ianto were much more intense early on than I had previously thought, and it was Ianto that was the emotional holdout. I'm not necessarily saying Jack was out and out in love with Ianto during the first season. But I definitely think he had an emotional investment before Ianto had one.
No worries about ramblings. I love discussions like this, too! :)
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I never thought about that, but I like your point of view on that!! I'll definately give it another thought!! ;-)
btw, about adding each other? I'd love to have one more passionate TW fan on my flist, to talk about our boys until our heads spin . . . *gg* ;-)
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Sure! I'll add you. :)
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Purely because I think that they got closer and eventually crossed that line between friends/lovers between Small Worlds and Greeks Bearing Gifts.
In my ideal world, they got closer after Small Worlds - when Ianto is the Only one who will talk to Jack - and had some fondling/kissing before Countrycide. But after Ianto's brush with the Cannibals, is when I think Jack realised 'I don't want to lose him without having done something about what I feel'.
That's just my opinion though.
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It would be fun to write little ficlets for each 'what if scenario', just to see which one works best - and now I'm giving myself ideas. Damn it.
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Do it! You know you want to. *evil grin*
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Q: Do you think Ianto wanted Jack from the start in Torchwood?
A: If he did, he didn't know it himself. Maybe the sense of something was always there, but it took some time for it to become clear in his mind. There's stuff in Episode Twelve of Season Two that gives a hint.In his early interviews he said that Jack and Ianto didn't do anything early on, that there was attraction. It is only after GDL discovered the wonders of Janot smut that he has been making these comments about things going on from the beginning, often to an audience where he knows there are fanfic writers in attendance ( ... )
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I do recall a story on set of one of the actors asking RTD very early on if he was meant to be shagging another character (presumably this was Jack and Ianto) and RTD didn't answer him. At the very least it was a possibility based on subtext that one of the actors picked up on.
Doubt we will ever know the official line, though, and that is fine. I interpret it the way GDL has been of late. Ianto making a move to protect his secret. GDL could have reevaluated based on new information as the characters got more fleshed out. I personally cannot fathom TKKS as the first overture; judging by the poll, there are many different perspectives and all have their own arguments in favor and against.
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