Dave Letterman and women writers

[elastic_spam]

So my nervousness about Letterman has kinda been realized: Apparently, there was sexism going on: http://www.popeater.com/2009/10/27/david-letterman-staffer-sexism?icid=main|aimzones|dl2|link4|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.popeater.com%2F2009%2F10%2F27%2Fdavid-letterman-staffer-sexism

Jesus fuck, Dave. Jesus.

Comments

[rocza]

Well, one person who worked there two decades ago asserts that there was. A lot of other people of both genders, working there through all the years, have said that there wasn't.

I don't find much terribly convincing about her claim, to be honest. She made an assertion that got her media attention, which is never a bad thing for a writer or producer - especially one who appears to be between jobs. And her claim is getting more attention because it's goes against what everyone else is saying.

As for the writer-hiring practice of late night television, that is a pretty separate issue from a sexist work environment.

[cicipsychobunny]

As for the writer-hiring practice of late night television, that is a pretty separate issue from a sexist work environment.

I think there's a pretty obvious line between the two.

[rocza]

And I think that it's a lot more complicated, and an industry-wide issue that people have been working on and debating over for years.

When the talent simply isn't available in large enough quantity for everyone to hire female writers, it's disingenuous to say that a place that doesn't have female writers on staff is automatically sexist. Even moreso when you're talking about late night comedy writers and shows, which are plagued by other problems, including network poaching, and the fact that at least in Hollywood/on the networks (as opposed to the Bus Boys of Comedy Central) many writers are under contract with a studio rather than a show, and are often moved between projects at a moment's notice. A show that this week has 5 women on the writing staff could have none next week.

It's not so simple or cut and dried as "they're just sexist."

[cicipsychobunny]

I think we read the situation differently. I'm not saying "they don't hire women writers because they're just sexist", I was going for "if the workplace is already a sexist environment they are less likely to hire women writers", OR women writers are going to try to find work elsewhere if they can.

[spoggly]

Okay, so studios move writers around. Why aren't there more women being moved around - it's not an issue of one show, it is an industry wide issue. To say that men get hired while women don't is explicable for other reasons ignores the institutionalized sexism in the entertainment industry. Everything's complicated, but that doesn't negate the sexism.

[rocza]

You can't force people to go into fields, though. There has been a slow and steady increase in the number of female writers over the years (someone at one of the entertainment blogs did a graph of it, altho I'll be damned if I can find it right now), but for some reason, most female writers - even in classes on writing/scripts/etc - tend to drift to either drama or science fiction. And I've read more than one complaint that SNL and the Bus Boys grab the majority of the Second City-raised female writers (which makes sense, since all three shows are heavily influenced by Second City alum

[spoggly]

I seriously doubt that there is a shortage of female writers, even ones in interested in comedy. Why would women who have less chances at positions, influence, and less chances of earning as much money as men go into entertainment? That's like saying "there's not as many men as women in the Army. It's definitely not because of a legacy of socialization that devalues women physically, it's not because of hugely inflated rates of assault, and it's not because women are encouraged to go into maternal professions. It's because women just can't hack it strengthwise

[rocza]

I seriously doubt that there is a shortage of female writers, even ones in interested in comedy.
I'm basing that assumption off conversations had with female writers involved in the NY-based late night comedy shows. I trust that they know what they're talking about better than random people on the internet. *shrug* YMMV.

Women have been making significant strides in the industry for years; many of the most successful shows on TV right now have female showrunners, producers, directors, etc. There is a known disparity in comedy writing versus the others. Is it because the female comedy writers prefer to live in NYC, and there are fewer shows based there? Is it because Vancouver offers a better QoL, so more people opt to live there and write on science fiction shows? Is it because primetime pays better than late night, or has better hours? Who knows. There are a lot of variables in play, however, and I think it cheapens everything and everyone to boil it down to gender.

[spoggly]

It cheapens everything to suggest that gender has nothing to do with it, which is exactly what you're doing.

[rocza]

Except I never said gender had nothing to do with it. Feel free to reread what I said. I said that boiling it down to gender cheapens the numerous diverse and complicated issues that appear to be at play.

[spoggly]

"As for the writer-hiring practice of late night television, that is a pretty separate issue from a sexist work environment."

Explain this, and the general ideas behind every single one of your comments in this post. Maybe there is a disconnect between what you think you're saying and what the obvious meaning of what you're saying is.

Feel free to make another dismissive snotty comment that ignores the entirety of what you're saying!

[rocza]

Why not go back and reread everything I said, since I already answered that? Or is it safe to assume that's asking too much for you to do?

[spoggly]

Okay, so we're already heading down the path of "there is no way I have said anything that could be misconstrued or in any way suggested that gender is not an important part of this issue." It's so relieving to know that no matter the issue at hand, there will be someone ready to dismiss actual arguments in favor of defensiveness. I probably shouldn't even dare to talk to you, since I know you're probably very busy with academia.

There's definitely no way that your comments are dismissive and severely misrepresenting the interplay of various factors concerning women in entertainment, and specifically in comedy. And there's definitely no way that you, in no way a random person on the internet, could be wrong whereas some plebe on the internet could actually be educated about this field.

[spoggly]

BTW, this right here? I think that the issues behind female comedy writers is a lot deeper than gender, and I think people who opt to stop and focus there are doing a great disservice to the people working in the field. I think that focusing on gender and making it all about sexism when the issue clearly goes a lot deeper than that is precisely what gives feminists a bad name, and makes people unwilling to associate themselves as or with feminists.

Says a whooooolllleeeeeeeee lot about your argument.

[rocza]

Yes, it says that I think that the situation is much more complicated than a kneejerk reaction about gender, and that automatically assuming sexism based on a single person's comment is a really bad idea.

[spoggly]

Omg, are you seriously this superficial in your feminism. Go call some more women strident and feel good about your bad arguments.