Dave Letterman and women writers

[elastic_spam]

So my nervousness about Letterman has kinda been realized: Apparently, there was sexism going on: http://www.popeater.com/2009/10/27/david-letterman-staffer-sexism?icid=main|aimzones|dl2|link4|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.popeater.com%2F2009%2F10%2F27%2Fdavid-letterman-staffer-sexism

Jesus fuck, Dave. Jesus.

Comments

[spoggly]

I seriously doubt that there is a shortage of female writers, even ones in interested in comedy. Why would women who have less chances at positions, influence, and less chances of earning as much money as men go into entertainment? That's like saying "there's not as many men as women in the Army. It's definitely not because of a legacy of socialization that devalues women physically, it's not because of hugely inflated rates of assault, and it's not because women are encouraged to go into maternal professions. It's because women just can't hack it strengthwise."

And why do you think that there aren't talented women? And no, we wouldn't demand an unqualified female CEO, but throwing that strawman in ignores the fact that there are large numbers of qualified women who simply don't get promoted, and ignores the fact that there are even larger numbers of women who are unable to access the resources, even within their own companies, to become qualified. It also ignores the fact that there may very well be qualified women who are unwilling to continue working in companies where they face wage gaps and sexist environments.

You're reducing the issue to an incredibly simplistic view that doesn't take into account any factors that would discourage female writers from going into comedy.

[rocza]

I seriously doubt that there is a shortage of female writers, even ones in interested in comedy.
I'm basing that assumption off conversations had with female writers involved in the NY-based late night comedy shows. I trust that they know what they're talking about better than random people on the internet. *shrug* YMMV.

Women have been making significant strides in the industry for years; many of the most successful shows on TV right now have female showrunners, producers, directors, etc. There is a known disparity in comedy writing versus the others. Is it because the female comedy writers prefer to live in NYC, and there are fewer shows based there? Is it because Vancouver offers a better QoL, so more people opt to live there and write on science fiction shows? Is it because primetime pays better than late night, or has better hours? Who knows. There are a lot of variables in play, however, and I think it cheapens everything and everyone to boil it down to gender.

[spoggly]

It cheapens everything to suggest that gender has nothing to do with it, which is exactly what you're doing.

[rocza]

Except I never said gender had nothing to do with it. Feel free to reread what I said. I said that boiling it down to gender cheapens the numerous diverse and complicated issues that appear to be at play.

[spoggly]

"As for the writer-hiring practice of late night television, that is a pretty separate issue from a sexist work environment."

Explain this, and the general ideas behind every single one of your comments in this post. Maybe there is a disconnect between what you think you're saying and what the obvious meaning of what you're saying is.

Feel free to make another dismissive snotty comment that ignores the entirety of what you're saying!

[rocza]

Why not go back and reread everything I said, since I already answered that? Or is it safe to assume that's asking too much for you to do?

[spoggly]

Okay, so we're already heading down the path of "there is no way I have said anything that could be misconstrued or in any way suggested that gender is not an important part of this issue." It's so relieving to know that no matter the issue at hand, there will be someone ready to dismiss actual arguments in favor of defensiveness. I probably shouldn't even dare to talk to you, since I know you're probably very busy with academia.

There's definitely no way that your comments are dismissive and severely misrepresenting the interplay of various factors concerning women in entertainment, and specifically in comedy. And there's definitely no way that you, in no way a random person on the internet, could be wrong whereas some plebe on the internet could actually be educated about this field.

[spoggly]

BTW, this right here? I think that the issues behind female comedy writers is a lot deeper than gender, and I think people who opt to stop and focus there are doing a great disservice to the people working in the field. I think that focusing on gender and making it all about sexism when the issue clearly goes a lot deeper than that is precisely what gives feminists a bad name, and makes people unwilling to associate themselves as or with feminists.

Says a whooooolllleeeeeeeee lot about your argument.

[rocza]

Yes, it says that I think that the situation is much more complicated than a kneejerk reaction about gender, and that automatically assuming sexism based on a single person's comment is a really bad idea.

[spoggly]

Omg, are you seriously this superficial in your feminism. Go call some more women strident and feel good about your bad arguments.

[spoggly]

Gender is a huge factor in our society. It seems like you are having a hard time grasping the fact that, intersectionality aside, sexism is a shaping force of womens' lives regardless of what facet you're looking at. It also seems like you did not feel like typing "women television writers" into google, because the. first. page. of results gives you more sources from women who currently work in the field, and large amounts of statistics regarding things like wage disparity that would discourage women from entering the field.

You seriously ought to work on your critical thinking skills re: feminism.

[fornikate]

Gender has everything to do with it.

[rocza]

And I disagree. Yay, we're at an impasse. Next?

[fornikate]

You honestly think that the socialization of gender roles and the overall societal idea that comedy is a 'boy's club' has nothing to do with women not being as prevalent in the industry?

[rocza]

Kercher's Revel With a Cause talks a chunk about liberalism and satire in post-WWII America, and the changes that are seen in the entire genre of comedy, including the increasing role and acceptance of women. It's an interesting historical look, and worth a read, and is in part what informs my ideas.

As a whole, no, I don't think there's a continued "overall societal idea that comedy is a 'boys club.'" I think if that were the case, there wouldn't be a decent number of women on scripted comedy series - but there are.

Are female writers still a smaller number of writers proportional to male, across the entire industry? Yes, but the number is growing more balanced by the year. If it wasn't, then it seems like there would be a big issue.

What is afflicting the late night writing teams of three of the what, seven or eight weekly late night talk shows, appears to be a different issue. And also, noticeably, less of an issue the minute you start including all of the late night talk shows. Do you really think it's coincidence that she only included Leno, Letterman, and Conan? Add in the other shows, and suddenly there are a LOT more women, and the argument becomes a lot less strident, or relevant.

[spoggly]

Add in the other shows, and suddenly there are a LOT more women, and the argument becomes a lot less strident, or relevant.

ooooo gurl you throw out that tone card!