Canon vs. Fanon, part 8: Daniel, Pacifism, and Weapons Skills

[sg_fignewton]

Welcome to the next edition of Canon vs. Fanon! And hello to all the new people of my f-list. :) Drop a comment, say hi, and join the discussion! Differing opinions are welcomed, too.

As I've mentioned in many of these posts, most fanon affectations are only minor irritations for me, particularly those that can be reasonably extrapolated from canon

Comments

[redbyrd_sgfic]

A masterly analysis, as usual! This one's one of my pet peeves, too. Honestly, the reason armies switched from arrows to guns to begin with is you can teach any high-school kid how to use one in six weeks. Anybody who thinks Daniel lacks either the skill or will to use a gun has obviously been watching Stargate in some alternate universe

[aurora_novarum]

Yes, both Janet and Sam had 9 mm Berettas in the Curse. Osiris put the whammy on them before either could fire.

[sg_fignewton]

Beast of Burden- Daniel gives his zat to Chaka. Arguing for peace while accepting the necessity of war?

Thank you for mentioning this! You'll see that I edited the post above. BoB was most definitely on my list - I'd even written it up before! - and it somehow didn't make it into the final edit. It's back now, so it's all good. :)

I do agree with the other eps you cite, although I didn't want to go through the entire show and mention every time Daniel actually holds a gun. :) RoE is a good point, though, as is Touchstone, when no one seems to think twice about letting their civilian archeologist take part in a military operation onworld where his usual skills were not exactly required.

Anybody who thinks Daniel lacks either the skill or will to use a gun has obviously been watching Stargate in some alternate universe.

Yeah, well, from the looks of it, a lot of fanfic authors are accidently tuning in to that alternate reality's shows.

[aurora_novarum]

There's another issue that I think comes into play here. It's first contact

[nomadicwriter]

"Daniel is an idealist, and thus sometimes dangerous."

I totally agree with. I think that Daniel is, in his own way, much more dangerous than any of his teammates... because he's a lot more convinced of his own righteousness.

Jack is certainly ready to attack or kill on less provocation than Daniel, but I also think that Jack is under no illusion that he's objectively a good man or that his actions are The Right Thing To Do. (If anything, I think he has an overly cynical view of himself - although I doubt he has quite the self-esteem crisis a lot of fanfic would have you believe). Jack will do things that he obviously considers to be wrong because he believes that they're also necessary.

That's what fascinates me most about the Jack-Daniel conflict in canon (and what a large number of fanfic writers totally miss when they turn it into this black-and-white thing of: "Daniel is good and right and all things lovely, and Jack is a big old meanie who just Doesn't Understand.") It's not a conflict of ideals. I think Jack and Daniel

[abyssinia4077]

That's a really interesting comparison between Jack and Daniel

[sg_fignewton]

Oh, I like that: Daniel deals with his inner realist, while Jack copes with his inner idealist. But they both have both of them. Yes, that puts it quite neatly.

And Menace! Such a painful ep for Daniel, where he tries to let idealism triumph and discovers that it doesn't always work that way.

Interesting that you suggest it "drove a wall between them," where I saw the two of them as utterly vulnerable in that closing scene, with no walls left, even the ones they needed. Like I said, it really does deserve a long, thoughtful essay. One day... :)

[shutthef_up]

Excellent summation debunking the fanon tropes of pacifist and inept Daniel.

I will add one small observation. In early seasons, Daniel's tac vest and holster frequently weren't properly fastened and 'locked down'. His sidearm frequently flopped against his leg. And I do believe this was an active choice on either the part of the actor or directors. But it was pretty consistent.

I always sort of 'read' that as Daniel having a certain disregard for weapons. He wasn't opposed to them, nor did he particularly mind carrying one, but he didn't feel the same need as the military members to keep it at the ready.

His reload in Forever In a Day was a bit clumsy, but capable. Very typical for someone who's practiced doing it, but never had to do it under fire

[sg_fignewton]

I never noticed Daniel having his sidearm flop against his leg, although I've certainly read enough references to it in fics. Must I go back and rewatch early episodes to take note? Oh, the humanity! :)

I think some fans have some investment in portraying Daniel as overly young, naive and idealistic.

That certainly seems to be the case; I just don't understand why. What reason could these authors have for wanting Daniel reduced to something less than a capable adult? Is it to make him The Girl(tm)? To have someone they feel comfortable whumping and then comforting? It doesn't make sense to me.

I also find his skills progression realistic, although part of me misses the days when Daniel didn't go striding up the ramp, armed with P-90 to match the others. He looks like just another soldier now, and he's ever so much more. Lucky for us. :)

[shutthef_up]

I never noticed Daniel having his sidearm flop against his leg, although I've certainly read enough references to it in fics. Must I go back and rewatch early episodes to take note? Oh, the humanity! :)Yes, I live to torture you ;) If it were the weekend, I'd make a list for you. For starters, though, you can give the one with the Naked White Aliens a shot. While he drags the straps of his tac vest in the dust later in the ep, even early on, his waist belt is undone (and it is frequently, in many early eps). The holster is attached to the wide waist belt of the tac vest, so when it's unclipped, the whole deal just kinda flops around. So basically, if his tac vest is unzipped and unsnapped, the holster's going to be flopping around. Which to me would be uncomfortable as hell and requires him to put his hand down to steady it if he runs. And he does

[aurora_novarum]

You know, I didn't really notice how often Daniel's jacket and tac vest is undone, until I watched that final Tollan episode, with the dude's funeral? The rarity of seeing him with a jacket zipped made me realize how often it isn't.

His jacket is zipped up tight and they were on a location shoot in the winter months, so I figure it must've been damn cold shooting that day. Daniel/MS actually has "his coat buttoned!" (tm my mom).

Well, though these may be fightin' words, I've mostly seen it in slash fic,

Oh it's in gen fic too. *sigh* Naive, bumbling, clumsy pacifist Daniel who couldn't tie his shoelaces without the team helping him, much less shoot the bad guys. Like you point out, he knows, he just can't be bothered with those details unless he sees the purpose of it.

[abyssinia4077]

Reading this I keep remembering the awesome bit in "The Sentinal" where the other Colonel isn't happy with an archaeologist protecting them and Daniel holds up his knife and wise-asses "I forget, which end do the bullets go in?" - Daniel obviously is fully aware and confident of his ability with weapons

[sg_fignewton]

Funny you should mention The Sentinel. I actually considered including it, but decided the quote from WoO served the purpose well enough. :) The Sentinel mostly bored me, but I have several snippets of it saved on my hard drive, under the name "Daniel defies expectations" - the lovely exchange you mention, of course, and his breaking the musical code, and his deciphering enough words on the pillar (intelligently, too - not that he could magically read it, but that he was able to compare it to something he'd seen before). In term of Daniel's character, that storyline didn't belong in S5; it should have been earlier, S3 or even S2. NID sneering aside, most people know, by the end of S5, just what Daniel can do.

don't think I've ever run across claims of Daniel being a pacifist

Congratulations, then, on cleverly avoiding a whole slew of really annoying fics! :)

I do wonder though how his actions towards shooting at Goa'uld compare to shooting at not-quite-enemies.I actually thought I covered this in the post, as that's a favorite

[abyssinia4077]

Congratulations, then, on cleverly avoiding a whole slew of really annoying fics! :)
It probably helps that 1) I only started watching the show in November 2) only started reading fic in January and 3) most of what I've read has been from your recs (and a few others over at stargateficrec). An easy way to avoid the annoying stuff. Not that I haven't encountered a few that ping me funny.

There's no canon for this, though, because there is no comparable incident on the show.Which is probably why it didn't feel to me like you covered it. Except for in "Beast of Burden," where I don't remember Daniel actually killing anyone himself, all your examples are of Daniel killing Goa'uld, Jaffa, Reetou, etc. Though now I'm having a hard time thinking of times any of them really had to mow down villagers. I guess that's a moral ground the show itself doesn't want to think about. Easier to make good and evil black and white

[sg_fignewton]

I'm only about a year ahead of you in fic-reading, then. Don't feel too bad if you encounter some bad ones. Although, to be fair, one of my favorite authors actually hits almost every single cliche along the way... and is still incredibly good. Go figure.

I like your suggestion that the writers avoided the uneasiness of writing about fighting/killing ordinary humans, because it's too gray an area. There were the Touched, I suppose, but that's about it.

Labels

[randomfreshink]

One of my favorite scenes is in "Chimera" where we get Daniel and Teal'c working out (yes, could stop there, but it gets better). And Teal'c starts talking about dreams--and then he goes on to tell Danile that, given all Daniel's gone through, Teal'c is amazed Daniel can sleep. Which Daniel finds disturbing on so many levels--an intersting comment right there

Re: Labels

[sg_fignewton]

I quite like this: But I think that says a lot about what Daniel looses sleep over, and there's not a lot of nightmares about shooting people or things he's decided are wrong or bad or about to kill someone he cares about. Because I think you're right. His nightmares are mostly about what-might-have-beens or I-should-haves, not about I-did-thats. "I should have left the Stargate buried," not "I shouldn't have nuked Ra." Or, as Teal'c suggests, "I wish I could save Sara," not "I almost poisoned her back in S5! How could I do such a thing?"

He's also a dedicated tool user (if there's no gun, he will pick up anything with with he can hit someone). Heh. Other than the time when he picked up the pseudo-golf club and whacked someone with it in The Other Side, when do we see Daniel improvising a weapon?

And, yes, Daniel wouldn't approve of labels. Humans are ever so much too complex for that. Especially our Daniel! :)

Re: Labels

[redbyrd_sgfic]

Other than the time when he picked up the pseudo-golf club and whacked someone with it in The Other Side, when do we see Daniel improvising a weapon?

Well, the dart incident you've already mentioned from 'The Curse'. The rock he decided not to hit Chaka with in 'The First Ones'. A large pottery vase in 'It's Good to Be King'. Another rock (which he again doesn't use) in Evolution 2. I'm sure there are more.

Re: Labels

[sg_fignewton]

By improvising in The Curse, you mean when he took the dart and stabbed Osiris with it while he was being ribboned?

LOL at the rocks. And the pottery vase. I'll bow to your wisdom here, I think. :)