Sometimes the moral high ground just isn't satisfying enough. :P I kid but you get the idea. I'm not so much happy he's dead as glad he won't be spewing his vitrol anymore. Nonetheless, I'm not going to mourn him. In this I am absolutely comfortable being selfish. He's got family to do that for him.
There's a difference between not mourning a man's passing, and gleefully cheering a man's death. I'm not saying you're doing the latter, but I'm saying some people are and I don't agree with it.
Dear, I wasn't defending myself. I stand by my position quite willingly. Nonetheless, just a casual glance at my friends page brings your point to a sharp focus - a few are taking the moral highground, but most are doing everything but pissing on the grave. I just file him as Materially Non Participating and move on. And that, yes, I'm perfectly well adjusted with. As always, your moral compass is indefatigable. At least in my opinion. :)
Agreed, here. I'm certainly not mourning him, and I'm glad that we won't have to deal with his particular brand of bullshit as much, anymore. Doesn't mean I'm celebrating it.
People are always going to be bias against some group or sect. Thats how it's always been and always will be. Now Gerald Ford and Boris Yeltsin dying... is a really sad day, but no one posted that in their LJ =( And fags just like to celebrate about something as petty as someone against their ideals passionately. Over half the people in this country think my economic ideals are psychotic and crazy. And then the rest agree with them. So like, whatever.
Your lj says 'Is anyone having a party now that the fucker can't spew his hate and vitriol anymore? Bye bye, asshole.'
Sounds a little bit like hate and vitriol on your part as well. That's all well and good, as long as you're not claiming any moral high ground. An eye for an eye, you've got a nice long historical precedent there. But no one gains from that.
I'm not asking you to pretend to respect someone you do not. Nor do I think a dead person is more sacred or untouchable than a living one.
I am saying, directly, that celebrating a man's death -- any man's death -- is something I don't agree with. Does this make you equal to Jerry Falwell in my eyes? I don't recall saying that. Certainly not.
His death gains us nothing. Where he stood, there will be another just like him. Nothing has changed.
The way you wrote this..'People stepping in and saying that I shouldn't be feeling whatever I'm feeling..' Is that the way you took my post?
In my original post, I only spoke of how I felt.
Otherwise, I think what you're saying makes a lot of sense, over all. I guess I just see people like him as, well...it's not the man who's important, it's what he represents, and I don't want to feed that demon in any way.
I'll be honest. I hated the man for the things he said. My view on it is this: For his death, I'm not celebrating. But for the fact that there is today one less voice spewing the hatred and hypocrisy that he subscribed to and, in fact, encouraged to flourish in a day and age when we really should know better, I am overjoyed. Just as overjoyed as I would've been had he renounced it and remained alive.
Besides, there will be those who see the bitterness and hatred floating aroudn and will _reinforce_ his teachings. That bothers me more than anything else. What he couldn't prove in life shouldn't be proven in his death.
People are indeed, just people, but that does not give them an automatic pass to understanding, sympathy, respect regardless of them being alive or dead. Sure, someone loved him. So what? He was a vile, disgusting person who took advantage of the poor with his ministry and spewed hatred for anyone not white, male, straight and Christian. My only regret is that he died of old age instead of suffering in agony for decades and dying in poverty and obscurity. And I don't buy into the argument that celebrating his death is bad in the slightest. I can hate someone for hating the same way a cop can shoot a killer without being dragged down to their level.
Hmm. That's a complicated moral question. A cop can shoot a killer because we, as a society, have collectively agreed that the cop in question has the right to use violence in order to protect society on the whole. He is not dragged down to the killer's level because he is acting for a greater interest.
I don't see how hating someone for hating does anything to protect society. Where is the greater interest? I certainly don't see any benefit in celebrating after the hated man is dead. Your example doesn't fly to me.
I'll try another example then: let's say I shoot and kill the killer, I as a normal civilian. Let's also set the rules to say that the killer was no danger to me no had he harmed me or anyone I know, that his guilt was absolute, but that for whatever reason he was walking around free and was not going to be jailed or punished for his crime. Clearly, I have killed someone, but do you consider that as being on the same level as this killer?
I'm was tempted to re-write the example as 'What if I shot Hitler in 1939?', since it's more convoluted (Hitler never killed anyone with his own hands, just ordered it) but the historical baggage is just too great to even think about discussing that idea.
I'd say that I am not a believer in vigilanteism and that you are. I've known we disagree on this point for years, and I'm fine with it. I also do not think that violence is an appropriate avenue with which to affect meaningful social change.
I also don't see how this relates to the above at all. Hating someone who hates does nothing. Nor does celebrating their death. In fact I daresay that energy would have been better served doing something to counter that person's influence while they were still alive.
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Nonetheless, I'm not going to mourn him. In this I am absolutely comfortable being selfish. He's got family to do that for him.
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I just file him as Materially Non Participating and move on. And that, yes, I'm perfectly well adjusted with.
As always, your moral compass is indefatigable. At least in my opinion. :)
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Now Gerald Ford and Boris Yeltsin dying... is a really sad day, but no one posted that in their LJ =(
And fags just like to celebrate about something as petty as someone against their ideals passionately.
Over half the people in this country think my economic ideals are psychotic and crazy. And then the rest agree with them. So like, whatever.
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Sounds a little bit like hate and vitriol on your part as well. That's all well and good, as long as you're not claiming any moral high ground. An eye for an eye, you've got a nice long historical precedent there. But no one gains from that.
I'm not asking you to pretend to respect someone you do not. Nor do I think a dead person is more sacred or untouchable than a living one.
I am saying, directly, that celebrating a man's death -- any man's death -- is something I don't agree with. Does this make you equal to Jerry Falwell in my eyes? I don't recall saying that. Certainly not.
His death gains us nothing. Where he stood, there will be another just like him. Nothing has changed.
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In my original post, I only spoke of how I felt.
Otherwise, I think what you're saying makes a lot of sense, over all. I guess I just see people like him as, well...it's not the man who's important, it's what he represents, and I don't want to feed that demon in any way.
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Besides, there will be those who see the bitterness and hatred floating aroudn and will _reinforce_ his teachings. That bothers me more than anything else. What he couldn't prove in life shouldn't be proven in his death.
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I don't see how hating someone for hating does anything to protect society. Where is the greater interest? I certainly don't see any benefit in celebrating after the hated man is dead. Your example doesn't fly to me.
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I'm was tempted to re-write the example as 'What if I shot Hitler in 1939?', since it's more convoluted (Hitler never killed anyone with his own hands, just ordered it) but the historical baggage is just too great to even think about discussing that idea.
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I also don't see how this relates to the above at all. Hating someone who hates does nothing. Nor does celebrating their death. In fact I daresay that energy would have been better served doing something to counter that person's influence while they were still alive.
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