(no subject)
eject142: hey
ajutla: hi.
eject142: I have a theory to bounce off of you
eject142: Ebert dislikes games, or regards games as "low art" because there is a lack of authorial control
eject142: his argument being that since the creator doesn't have control over how the player pays the game, this destroys the notion of narrative
eject142: however, consider the films of David Lynch
eject142: it is arguable that Lynch intentionally creates a giant mess of narrative elements that may have hundreds of possible interpretations, any of which could be "correct"
eject142: so are Lynch's movies game-like, in that sense?
ajutla: I'd say maybe, in a sense.
ajutla: but I kind of take issue with the "lack of authorial control["]
ajutla: idea.
eject142: well yeah
eject142: I diagree with that as well
eject142: I'm just using Ebert's stance as a starting point
ajutla: yeah.
ajutla: but then every film that leaves itself open to narrative interpretation would be gamey.
eject142: I think so
eject142: just that Lynch is the most recognizable and accessible example
ajutla: yeah.
eject142: well, and I think that all films are open to narrative interpretation
ajutla: right.
eject142: it's just that Lynch's films seem to be specifically designed with that in mind
ajutla: you could say that what makes Lynch specifically more gamey is that he sets out to create a kind of mental space in which you "play"
eject142: exactly
eject142: he is playing with the audience
ajutla: you take in what you will and you come away with some notion of what the film meant
ajutla: that's different from what someone else got or from what you might get if you watch the same thing a few years down the road.
eject142: there's a much wider variance in interpretation
eject142: it's similar to games in that there are narrative elements that are common to all experiences
eject142: it's just that the interpretation is left largely to the viewer
eject142: and what's crucial is that Lynch is somehow controlling that interpretation
ajutla: yeah. that kind of control is what makes games games, I think.
ajutla: it's placing careful restrictions on what the player can do.
eject142: which comes back to Pongism
ajutla: creating that space in a certain shape.
ajutla: yeah.
eject142: it always does
For further "evidence", read Ebert's review of "Lost Highway": http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/19970227/REVIEWS/702270304/1023
ajutla: hi.
eject142: I have a theory to bounce off of you
eject142: Ebert dislikes games, or regards games as "low art" because there is a lack of authorial control
eject142: his argument being that since the creator doesn't have control over how the player pays the game, this destroys the notion of narrative
eject142: however, consider the films of David Lynch
eject142: it is arguable that Lynch intentionally creates a giant mess of narrative elements that may have hundreds of possible interpretations, any of which could be "correct"
eject142: so are Lynch's movies game-like, in that sense?
ajutla: I'd say maybe, in a sense.
ajutla: but I kind of take issue with the "lack of authorial control["]
ajutla: idea.
eject142: well yeah
eject142: I diagree with that as well
eject142: I'm just using Ebert's stance as a starting point
ajutla: yeah.
ajutla: but then every film that leaves itself open to narrative interpretation would be gamey.
eject142: I think so
eject142: just that Lynch is the most recognizable and accessible example
ajutla: yeah.
eject142: well, and I think that all films are open to narrative interpretation
ajutla: right.
eject142: it's just that Lynch's films seem to be specifically designed with that in mind
ajutla: you could say that what makes Lynch specifically more gamey is that he sets out to create a kind of mental space in which you "play"
eject142: exactly
eject142: he is playing with the audience
ajutla: you take in what you will and you come away with some notion of what the film meant
ajutla: that's different from what someone else got or from what you might get if you watch the same thing a few years down the road.
eject142: there's a much wider variance in interpretation
eject142: it's similar to games in that there are narrative elements that are common to all experiences
eject142: it's just that the interpretation is left largely to the viewer
eject142: and what's crucial is that Lynch is somehow controlling that interpretation
ajutla: yeah. that kind of control is what makes games games, I think.
ajutla: it's placing careful restrictions on what the player can do.
eject142: which comes back to Pongism
ajutla: creating that space in a certain shape.
ajutla: yeah.
eject142: it always does
For further "evidence", read Ebert's review of "Lost Highway": http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/19970227/REVIEWS/702270304/1023