And: yes. All of this. I know we already talked about much of it previously, including last night after we watched the episode, but it bears repeating that I agree with your take on Nate in its entirety.
And, as I was saying on the phone earlier, the only reason we get the set-up of Nate as a (supposed) good guy in "The Nigerian Job" is so that idea can later be deconstructed. It's a con, which is why it's important that Nate says, twice, that you just have to give people what they expect: it's a con on the team, because that's exactly what they expect of Nate, and he, knowing that, uses those expectations against them. It's also a con on the audience.
(I also think it's important that Sophie repeats that "you were the good guy" expectation in "The Miracle Job," because this is the episode that first makes it crystal clear just how much he's not.)
Yeah, it's a con on many levels, and how it plays out is structurally beautiful.
I think a lot of it comes back to how good addicts are at rationalization. It's such a useful skill set for Nate to have--and it's writ large here. He needs to believe he's better than everyone in order to set himself up as judge, jury, and executioner--but in and of itself, that's not enough. He needs the excuse of helping people, although that, on it's own, is not enough either. (Seriously, he wouldn't bother with the helping people if he couldn't wreak vengeance in the process.)
But if he weren't a little self aware, he wouldn't need to rationalize so much, and he wouldn't be so terrified of the truth.
I also think it's important that Sophie repeats that "you were the good guy" expectation in "The Miracle Job," because this is the episode that first makes it crystal clear just how much he's not.Ooh, yes. I'd missed that. Again, structurally beautiful, and it's interesting that Sophie herself needs to believe it. At
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And I think 12 Step added wieght to Nate's history of conning ... everyone. He said that his father and grandfather were both drunks and manipulators, so he knows it when he sees it. He learned how to con at his father's knee, absorbed it with his mother's milk.
The biggest question, IMO, is has he really, truly conned himself into believing the 'White Knight' personna, or is that scam on purpose, for the benefit of the rest of the team and Joe Public?
Yes, Twelve Step is the only time he admits it, and that's by accident. (He also manages not to say it directly, even though there's no doubt the statement applies to him and on some level he knows it
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Yeah. I just finished getting carried away with an obscenely long reply just above ^ but I think the short answer is that Nate has to believe he's better than everyone else because otherwise who is he to play judge, jury, and executioner? At the same time, he needs the justification, the rationalization, that he's helping people. It's true, too, which is why it works as a rationalization.
I think he's too calculating and too afraid of the truth to be completely self unaware, but if he were self-reflective it would all come crashing down.
I don't usually care for text-y icons, but yours is quite lovely. He *is* an evil genius bastard, and (for the sake of argument) what will keep him from supervillianry is that he doesn't want anyone dead, he wants them to suffer.
Fabulous look at Nate! I'm usually too busy squeeing to give the show this type of in depth study, but I really enjoy reading other peoples' deep thinky thoughts, so thanks muchly for posting this. I'm going to memory it, but I'd also like to point people to it from my journal, if you don't mind. Thanks. *g*
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And: yes. All of this. I know we already talked about much of it previously, including last night after we watched the episode, but it bears repeating that I agree with your take on Nate in its entirety.
And, as I was saying on the phone earlier, the only reason we get the set-up of Nate as a (supposed) good guy in "The Nigerian Job" is so that idea can later be deconstructed. It's a con, which is why it's important that Nate says, twice, that you just have to give people what they expect: it's a con on the team, because that's exactly what they expect of Nate, and he, knowing that, uses those expectations against them. It's also a con on the audience.
(I also think it's important that Sophie repeats that "you were the good guy" expectation in "The Miracle Job," because this is the episode that first makes it crystal clear just how much he's not.)
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Yeah, it's a con on many levels, and how it plays out is structurally beautiful.
I think a lot of it comes back to how good addicts are at rationalization. It's such a useful skill set for Nate to have--and it's writ large here. He needs to believe he's better than everyone in order to set himself up as judge, jury, and executioner--but in and of itself, that's not enough. He needs the excuse of helping people, although that, on it's own, is not enough either. (Seriously, he wouldn't bother with the helping people if he couldn't wreak vengeance in the process.)
But if he weren't a little self aware, he wouldn't need to rationalize so much, and he wouldn't be so terrified of the truth.
I also think it's important that Sophie repeats that "you were the good guy" expectation in "The Miracle Job," because this is the episode that first makes it crystal clear just how much he's not.Ooh, yes. I'd missed that. Again, structurally beautiful, and it's interesting that Sophie herself needs to believe it. At ( ... )
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The biggest question, IMO, is has he really, truly conned himself into believing the 'White Knight' personna, or is that scam on purpose, for the benefit of the rest of the team and Joe Public?
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Yeah. I just finished getting carried away with an obscenely long reply just above ^ but I think the short answer is that Nate has to believe he's better than everyone else because otherwise who is he to play judge, jury, and executioner? At the same time, he needs the justification, the rationalization, that he's helping people. It's true, too, which is why it works as a rationalization.
I think he's too calculating and too afraid of the truth to be completely self unaware, but if he were self-reflective it would all come crashing down.
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I don't usually care for text-y icons, but yours is quite lovely. He *is* an evil genius bastard, and (for the sake of argument) what will keep him from supervillianry is that he doesn't want anyone dead, he wants them to suffer.
(it all makes me perhaps too gleeful)
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Well then, I'm very glad this show is making you happy. *g*
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