Episode 31 - Pimp My Fandom Transcript
Pimp My Fandom Transcript
Host: kriken
Guest: gyzym
Fandom: The Avengers (MCU)
Kriken: Welcome to Pimp My Fandom for this episode of Slashcast. My name is kriken and my guest today is gyzym or Jizz. And what fandom are you going to be pimping today?
Gyzym: Uh, I am going to be pimping the Avengers fandom today - which to be fair, is kind of pimping itself, but uh-
Kriken: The reason why we chose Avengers for this PMF was specifically because the movie just came out and everyone's had about a month to watch it multiple times, to absorb it, to really explore and... We just, you know, want to continue that trend.
Gyzym: I am, uh, always about exploration of this particular film/body of comics/group of people, so...
Kriken: Well and, here's a question: did you come into it through MCU, or the Marvel Cinematic Universe, or did you start as a comics fan?
Gyzym: So... Hmm. That's a complicated answer. I read an obsessive amount of the Iron Man comics when I was a kid. Um, I read no Captain America, I read no generalized Avengers. My- my Tony Stark obsession started young and never quit. Um, and then when I got older, um, I ended up picking up a couple of the other comics and sort of getting into them in a peripheral way and then there was Robert Downey Jr. and Iron Man and I was like, "Oh right! I am hugely obsessed with this character AND this actor." And, uh, then- Then I started really reading comics in earnest; not just Iron Man, but comics across the board. So by the time... Well, I shouldn't really say by the time the movie came out. By the time the first trailer for this film came out and pulled me into the fandom, uh, I was- I was a comics fan. But I didn't necessarily start out that way, I really started as an Iron Man fan and then kinda was like, "Oh right, look at all these other people. Just because they don't all have alcohol abuse problems and daddy issues doesn't mean they're not worth my attention!" And then I was sucked in. And I should mention that- that the X-Men had something to do with it too, because I did, like, sort of zig zag through all the Marvel... everything and then land firmly in Avengers, so...
Kriken: Well, and Marvel does a good job of zig zagging itself.
Gyzym: Exactly. There's sort of no avoiding it if you're not just, you know, wearing blinders that say Iron Man on both sides like I was a kid.
Kriken: Well, and so... I guess in case anyone's been hiding under a rock or maybe just hasn't been paying a whole lot of attention to the way fandom has exploded lately, do you want to just do a quick walk through of the main cast?
Gyzym: Absolutely. Um, so, just focusing on the Avengers for a second and then we can- then we can at some point branch out into Loki, um... Who based on fandom's reaction really almost needs his own show.
Kriken: Oh, seriously.
Gyzym: There's... There's so much Loki, but no. We'll get there, we'll get there.
Kriken: Okay.
Gyzym: Iron Man who is Tony Stark, Captain America who is Steve Rogers, the Black Widow who is Natasha Romanov - who was flawless in this film, uh, just flawless! Uh, Thor, who you may have seen in "Thor". Uh, Clint Barton - Hawkeye, who again, ugh, so many feelings, so unexpected because in the comic books... And I mean, I love him, but in a like "Aww, Hawkeye" kinda way. I mean it's just- it's so purple. The suit is just so purple. I mean, and you know, he rocks it, good for him, but you don't really look at Hawkeye and go, "Wow, I have some really serious, invested, thought out emotions about you"; you're like, "No, that was funny, Hawkeye. Shoot it again."
But, as SHIELD, obviously we've got Nick Fury, manipulation master; Phil Coulson, who I'm not even really sure I'm ready to talk about yet; uh, Maria Hill who was awesome; and then Galaga guy who I really feel should have his own fanfiction community...
Kriken: I love Joss Whedon, can I just say that? That was such a Joss Whedon moment.
Gyzym: It was such a Joss Whedon moment and I... You know what? I've seen the movie a couple of times since then and it has never stopped being funny.
Oh my god, I didn't say Bruce Banner! I knew I had said- I hadn't said somebody before.
Kriken: Oh!
Gyzym: Bruce Banner and the Hulk, played by Mark Ruffalo who has been my favorite actor since The Brothers Bloom came out and if anybody who's listening to this has not seen The Brothers Bloom, they should all go see The Brothers Bloom because it's amazing.
Kriken: And I can't believe we forgot Bruce Banner because Hulk was, like, the break-out character. Like, very few people went into the movie going, "Oh, I'm gonna love the Hulk." But everyone came out of it going, "He had the best scenes in the movie!"
Gyzym: I know! Well and- it was hard to go into that movie thinking, "Oh, I'm gonna love the Hulk" because having seen the previous Hulk films, how could you think that? But then he was amazing! So... Was that everybody, have we talked about... Oh, Pepper. Gotta love Pepper Potts, um, for the two seconds she was in the movie. And... and Loki. And I think that is everyone who made an appearance including Galaga guy.
Kriken: Uh, so, an ensemble cast - lots of people to look at, lots of people to- to interact with and personally I felt it was a very well done ensemble cast. It could have been very easily overwhelming with the amount of storylines that could have tried to take over.
Gyzym: Absolutely agreed. To see something like The Avengers with so many different players and so much history, and you know, huge questions of- of where they are in their own plot lines, coming together to make a cohesive storyline like this is really a huge achievement no matter how you look at it.
Kriken: So, and with that huge ensemble cast, we're obviously going to have a lot of pairings to talk about.
Gyzym: Yeah...
Kriken: The main theme that I've been seeing everywhere is pretty much that everyone ships Avenger/Avenger. Really, there are very few people with, like, hardcore... I can only read this ship and this is the only thing I see. There's branches and there's OT3s and there's... It's been amazing, just, seeing everything that's been coming out as we built up towards the movie and then right afterwards.
Gyzym: It really is. I mean, it's just phenomenal. Like I'm just... So often I, like, look at fandom and go, "Wow, this is amazing..." That there are so many different ideas and permutations of ideas and ways these characters are drawn together - and also, somebody came up with Stark Spangled Banner.
Kriken: Oh, that is the best name ever.
Gyzym: Is that not the best ship name of all time? Like, I still can't handle it. Everytime I think about it I'm happy. I don't even need fic, I'm just like, "Oh, awesome. Awesome."
Kriken: Right there. It's all you got, it's all you need.
Normally we try and stick to just a handful of the pairings, but because this is the comics episode and we're dedicating a lot of time to the Avengers I feel that it's appropriate to just kinda walk through at least a little bit about each one of them. I don't know about you.
Gyzym: Sure. I- look, I'm always- I'm always up for that game.
Kriken: So, do you want to start at... Do you have favorites? I was about to say start at your favorite, but that's not necessarily an easy thing to do!
Gyzym: Uh, well - I mean, I have... I don't have favorites. I do have pairing that I know I'm known for writing. I wrote a bunch of Tony/Steve, so I think I want to start with Tony/Steve? Only because I know I know that ground really well. That is where my feelings really started and so there's a special spot in my multi-shipper heart for like, "Aw, you guys. You guys were my introduction to this, uh- this whole crazy mess."
But, the thing about Tony and Steve, right? Is that they are in so many ways EXACT opposites; like just, exact opposites. Like not, you know- Tony is the technology guy and Steve is the man out of time and, you know, Tony is hugely, like, in many ways a disrespectful, giant asshole - god love him - and Steve is like, you know, the stand-up guy... But they also have these similarities in, you know, their stubbornness and in how important to them, you know, this crime fighting stuff really is. And in the comics those similarities end up being, you know, a big basis of their friendship and what was so cool about seeing them interact in this film as opposed to imagining how they were going to interact for the six months before the film came out based on a trailer... Uh, you know, what was so cool about seeing them interact in this film is that there is this huge canonical history of the Iron Man-Captain America friendship and what's happened to it and the Civil War and, you know, all this crazy stuff that makes up that relationship. And to see it starting out, to watch the way that they really don't get along at the beginning, and all these ways that they're testing each other and pushing at each other and sort of vying to get to that spot where they can really look at one another as equal ground, is fascinating.
Kriken: How about... One of the big pairings that came out of the movie, partially because Mark Ruffalo did such a fantastic job as Bruce Banner, um, was Tony/Bruce, the Science Bros. I'm sure you saw it as well as anyone else...
Gyzym: Oh my god, I have... I just, I have so many feelings about the two of them. Just so many. Like, I so was... I did not see that coming. I didn't even- like, it didn't even occur to me that that was gonna be what I came out of that movie shipping. A huge part of what really set me off there was, you know, they're really- in a lot of ways they're mirrors of each other. You know, because, Tony Stark has this huge self loathing piece to his character and, of course, Bruce Banner is in a physical battle with the literal worst version of himself. Any Tony is- thinks that he is the literal worst version of himself and that Iron Man is how he's supposed to... Iron Man is to Bruce Banner as Tony Start is to the Hulk. And Joss Whedon just hit it out of the park with that- that scene where Tony is, like, trying to help Bruce because there are things that he really has never been able to say to himself that he identifies with and there's that pane of glass between them, that computer screen between them and it just... It looks like this mirror, you know, because they are the opposite sides of the same coin and ugh... God.
Kriken: Well, and then on top of that, you have, um, the big battle scene at the end.
Gyzym: Oh, I know. And I mean... So first of all, I have to say that every time I watch the battle scene at the end and every time I ever thing about the battle scene at the end, I'm immediately drawn to remembering that gingerhaze comic where the Hulk is like, "Hulk is tired of catch duty." Because that would get so exhausting if you were the Hulk, you know, just Avengers falling off of things left and right.
But, um, you know... That moment where the Hulk, who's been, you know, throughout the film seen as this uncontrollable character who is first of all more in control because Banner has embraced him, you know, in the sense that he has, you know, let him out - he's always angry, he let him out, which is just really, really I thought maybe the best thing about this film? Was that moment where Bruce says, "I'm always angry," and it just brings this whole other layer to this character, ugh... But then of course, you know, he catches Tony because Tony has been the one who's been the one who's been arguing for that acceptance for this whole movie. And, ugh, it's a beautiful moment, so beautiful.
Kriken: Oh, it definitely is. And then again, even before that when he's the one that says- when Tony is the one that says, "Let me know when Bruce gets here. He's gonna come."
Gyzym: Yes, yes. Well and that's, you know... It's so much easier for Tony Stark to have faith in other people than it is for Tony Stark to have faith in himself and there's so much about that character that is meant to be seen as, you know, this narcissistic, incredible self absorbed guy, but, you know, he's really not and it's moments like that that really display it because somebody that everybody else has looked at as, you know, a bad bet at best and a liability at worst, Tony Stark looks at and says, "He's gonna come, he's gonna be an asset, he's gonna help us do this." And just, ugh... Ugh, it's just such a god movie, it's just such a good movie I can't get over it.
Kriken: What about Thor/Loki is it that draws you in?
Gyzym: One of the pairings that I hugely ship in this canon but can't technically ship in this movie because of course Bucky Barnes isn't in this movie is Bucky Barnes and it's because- Bucky Barnes and Steve Rogers and it's because, you know, they grew up together, they have this shared history and... You know, I'm- I'm not really much for... I hugely support other people shipping it, but I have never been a big, you know, incest shipper by and large, but because Thor and Loki are NOT brothers it opens you up to this whole realm of possibility where they have this hugely fantastical childhood, and then Odin who is just, like, the worst parent and, you know, who is sort of guiding both of them and lying to Loki and, you know, they've got all these really complicated feelings- Well okay, no. Loki has all these really complicated feelings about Thor and Thor has pretty much one feeling about Loki, which is, "I love you, you're awesome, COME HOME, stop doing this stuff." Um, which, I mean, in and of itself is such an interesting angle for a love story because Thor is so, like, "I just want this to not be happening and I want you to be happy," and Loki is like, "I will NEVER be happy, nothing will EVER be good," and, you know, "I must destroy all of the things!" And Thor is just like, "What? Can't we just... Hugs?" And Loki's like, "I want NO hugs!" and then, at the same time, like, clearly is in need of some serious, industrial strength, reinforced with kevlar type hugging. So, you know, it's just... They're really interesting and they're also, you know, they're on that level playing field; whereas a ship like Tony/Loki or, you know, Clint/Loki - especially Clint/Loki - because the brain control aspect of it and the consent aspect of it, that doesn't work for me.
Kriken: How about some Clint/Coulson. How are you on the Clint/Phil?
Gyzym: I- I love Clint enough that I would love him with pretty much anybody. I have huge, unexpected Hawkeye feelings. Um, but I was reading Clint/Coulson even before the movie came out because I think there's... I think there's always a draw to the pairing of hugely competent human being/hugely competent human being and Clint has all these, like, meaty abandonment issues in a lot of, like, versions of him including in the comics version in a lot of ways, you know, because all these people have left him and he's got this whole, screwed up back story, you know. And then there's Coulson who's just, like, SO business oriented and I think they're... I don't know, I think they're great. I think they're great!
Kriken: Very much agreed. I've actually, aside from Tony/Steve, I think Clint/Coulson has been one of my favorite pairings to read in fanfic and the movie just... made that so much better. Especially with that scene where he's calling Natasha.
Gyzym: Yes. Yes yes yes. And the way that he says... I mean, every- for anybody- I know this is Slashcast, but you know, I also have giant Clint/Natasha feelings, but the way... But the way, uh, that that scene plays out, um... Which really, I mean, part of me is just, like, screw it - all three of them, you know?
Kriken: Right?
Gyzym: Clint/Coulson/Natasha all the way. Because that's just, like, such a married moment all around. Like, for both of them individually and for the concept of all three of them together because the way that Coulson says it and the way that Natasha reacts to it and just... ugh. I don't know. I don't know. I just want them to all... Like, I think- I think in my head at one point something just broke on the SHIELD- on the SHIELD helicarrier and they just all... They're all together with everyone. Like, I just can't handle it.
Kriken: How about Clint/Bruce?
Gyzym: Love it. Loved it even before the movie came out, uh, partially because I think that in some ways they're... I don't want to say the odd men out, but a little bit they are. You know, canonically in the comics Hawkeye has, um... Has some doubts and I can't remember where he stated them, but I know I've seen it - but he talks about how sometimes- He talks about- I think the direct quote is, "I don't miss because if I miss, I'm just a guy with a bow." And that's why he never misses, you know, he's got this whole identity thing about not necessarily having these crazy super powers and of course Bruce, when he's not the Hulk, he's just a guy who would really like to be doing some science and, you know, had this thing happen to him that he's still trying to work through. And, you know, I think that in a room full of people that, you know... It's those two and Tony Stark, who even when he's not in his Iron Man suit is constantly covered with his own technology, and Steve, who's a super soldier, and Thor who's a god, and Natasha who is, you know, so unbelievably physically capable that it's really staggering? And then to be Bruce and Clint, you know, with this sort of very- either very specific skill sets or skill sets that involve becoming something that you can't control. I think that there would almost naturally be a certain camaraderie there.
Kriken: And just because we don't want anyone to think that we're forgetting them, there is Natasha and Pepper.
Gyzym: Oh my god, which I ship like burning. Like Burning.
Kriken: The two red heads, that's very appropriate.
Gyzym: Um, I ship anybody- I ship the two of them with Maria Hill, too, I ship Pepper and Maria Hill, I ship, uh, Natasha/Maria Hill, I ship all three of them together, but especially Natasha/Pepper because there's just so much to work with in Iron Man 2. Like...
Kriken: Oh my god...
Gyzym: The degree to which they, you know, they start out and Pepper's like, "I don't trust you," and Natasha's, like, being a spy and Pepper is spot on to be, like, "I don't know about this..." And then, you know, they have this relationship that builds up where, you know, they're both against Tony and Tony's like, "Oh, whatever, wounded," and they're like, "Whatever, we're busy running companies and being complete badasses. Sit down, shut up, keep dying from that blood poisoning." And you know, I think, um... I think they're great in that movie. I love the way they interact with one another, I love the way they play off one another, and I love the idea of, you know, the two of them just sort of being like, "Right, okay, so we're gonna rise above some of this ridiculousness that's going on." Because that's really Natasha's role in a lot of this film. You know, there's a lot of posturing and all these, you know, like dudes going back and forth and being, like, "Well, you know, why don't you put on the suit?" and, you know, "I'm gonna call you a horrible name from medieval english." You know, Natasha's just like, "Yeah, whatever, I'm doing my job and being way better at it than you, buh bye." And, you know, that's Pepper's role in a lot of ways. You know, she has, you know, spent all this time as a character dealing with, uh, Tony which would just be the worst job. Like, can you imagine having Tony Stark as your job? Ugh, it would just be awful. And you know, she's just like, "Whatever, I am totally managing it," and I don't know... They didn't actually say clearly, uh, what her role is at Stark now in the film, but based on, you know, the interaction between her and Tony, you know, it's clearly- they're clearly on this equal footing level now and I just- I just love the idea of her and Natasha, like, together and way better than everyone around them. I just- I just can't help it, I just... Ugh.
I know that I've written a couple of stories where they're either a side pairing or one where they were Pepper and War from Good Omens as well as themselves, um... Which, in retrospect, I don't really remember how that happened. I know I wrote it..
Kriken: I'm not gonna question it, it was wonderful to read.
Gyzym: Well, thank you, but I am, like, trying to remember the impetus of that story and I don't. But the point being that they're amazing and I love them.
Kriken: And I think we've burned through the list the list that I had jotted down real quick, can you think of anyone we've missed?
Gyzym: There are the, you know, the assorted Thor/people who aren't Loki, but I haven't really noticed any of that. Like, pretty much people are shipping Thor with Loki...
Kriken: And that's about it.
Gyzym: And that's about it, yeah. Which is, you know, which is really interesting because Thor is great. I love Thor, I love Thor so much. Like, I- I actually would happily read thousands and thousands and thousands of words of just Thor gen. He's just so great. Thor is awesome, that is all I want to say.
Kriken: Let's talk about where people can find stuff. So, um, from my experience, most of the Avengers squee has been happening on Tumblr.
Gyzym: Yeah. Yeah, I'd say that's about right. Although I think that people are doing a really good job of... And I say people and not me, by the way, because I'm doing a horrible job at this because I am HORRIBLE at this, but people who aren't me are doing a really good job of, you know, when they actually produce fic on Tumblr, you know, cross posting it to AO3. Most of the squee seems to be going on on Tumblr, there's a little bit on Twitter, uh, which is mostly because Tom Hiddleston is on Twitter...
Kriken: And he feeds the fan girls...
Gyzym: ...and Mark Ruffalo's on Twitter. And Chris Evan's got a Twitter yesterday and, oh my god, it's like...
Kriken: He's so freakin' cute.
Gyzym: He's so cute! His mother is teaching him to tweet, it's so precious, I can't handle it.
Kriken: I love that gif that's going- or not even, I don't even think it's a gif, just a screen shot of his mother telling him how to use it with pics of his face going...
Gyzym: Oh, you mean the, uh, the clips that are consistently, like- that keep popping up in, uh, Steve/Tony gif sets and the assorted Steve/Tony gif sets that are amazing of Steve and Tony as Peter Parker's dads.
Kriken: Oh my god...
Gyzym: Which, there's one of them that, like, crosses that over with The Social Network, and I just... Ugh, like, I can't- there's just so much, just so much fandom happening at once it's unbelievable. It's amazing!
Kriken: And, you know, I have to say, if there is- I don't know that I could pick one favorite cliche in this fandom, but the Steve/Tony as Mom and Dad dichotomy that gives over to- especially when it comes to Peter, ugh...
Gyzym: I mean, god knows that, um, that I have some problems with that particular cliche because...
Kriken: I wouldn't call it a problem, I thought Bed- Bedtime Stories was lovely.
Gyzym: I, uh... Bedtime Stories were lovely in the sense that I could just write them without, like, you know- it was amazing! I was just, like, writing things with no capitalization or punctuation and people were like, "Oh yeah, okay, I'll read that." I wish my actual, day-to-day life could go that way.
Kriken: Well, and I absolutely love all of the fanart and stuff that's spun off of it, especially...Ironfries loved that story so much that she's got, like, half a dozen different little comics and art panels associated with it. I love the one that- the 'Vengers turtle...
Gyzym: Oh my god, so true story, that happened because there was a period of time where I was stories and all Ironfries and I ever did, when we talked to each other, was, like, squeel about babies. Because, like- you know, I don't normally... I think it's the only kid!fic I've ever written, I don't know what happened to me. I just, like- Tony, Steve, and a baby and my brain just, like, broke around that concept. Um, we went through this period- this phase where we kept talking about the assorted things, the assorted ways that- that Jaime could bastardize the word Avengers when he was learning to talk and I don't even remember how we landed on 'venger turtle, um, because in retrospect, why would you put 'venger- why would you say 'venger turtle? Like wha- why would-? Oh my god, and then she drew it and it was just the cutest thing in the history of time. Like, it's still SO cute, I still cannot handle how cute all the art she did for that was, but then again, you know, I- my love for Ironfries is quite large.
Kriken: Well, and understandably so!
Gyzym: Yeah, yeah. She's hugely talented, she's HUGELY talented. So many- you know, so many of the fan artists in this fandom... I mean, so many of the fan artists in general in fandom are unbelievably talented, but I've just be blown away with the Avengers art, just blown away, it's unbelievable the stuff people are putting out.
Kriken: Agreed. And from there we can transition to maybe doing some of the recs. So...
Gyzym: Oh yeah, we totally can.
Kriken: So specifically for art recs, there's obviously Ironfries. Marielikestodraw... Marie has some...
Gyzym: I was about to say, there's obviously Ironfries, there's obviously Marie. Uh, everybody should check out nogutsnoglory.tumblr.com, their art is gorgeous, unbelievable, incredible line work, especially this Bruce/Tony stuff...
Kriken: One of the other artists that I really like is, um, Joannaestep. She has some beautiful Steve/Tony, but she's also- she's a HUGE Loki fan and she has some absolutely gorgeous art, um, that delves...
Gyzym: Oh! I know who you're talking about! Oh my god, that stuff is so well done...
Kriken: She does the Slepnir and...
Gyzym: Oh yeah yeah yeah, I saw- I saw that this morning! I saw that this morning, oh my god she's... And her use of color is unreal.
Kriken: Oh, it's beautiful. Like, I love all of her Loki art to death. I mean, I love all of her art in general, but...
Gyzym: Oh yeah, no, I am totally there with you. Oh, and um... whoever is behind the askashieldagent ask blog is a) hilarious and b)incredibly talented in a- in a... they're not chibis, those characters, but the way that they draw is hugely evocative in terms of humor.
Kriken: Well, and there's irosyan...
Gyzym: Oh yeah...
Kriken: ...Who does Powerpuff Girl style Avengers art, which is hilarious...
Gyzym: Yeah, and those little gifs where they fly around and, ugh, it's so funny. And, I mean, and the number of incredible graphics out there, too, is really just stunning, just stunning. I mean, the work that people are doing blows me away. Oh! Um, oh, I don't know if hoursago has done slash art... I know them because of their Clint/Natasha, but they're amazing... Oh, we've got Clint and Thor.
Kriken: Hey, there we go.
Gyzym: Awesome. Everybody go check out hoursago.tumblr.com or, uh, blue fox on Deviant Art. Their art is gorgeous. And admittedly, admittedly that rec was drawn from this Clint/Natasha thing that I'm still staring at because I can't get over it, but also the rest of her art is equally stunning.
Kriken: Speaking of graphics, I have absolutely been loving the "Texts from the Avengers" that's been coming out of the bartonesque blog on tumblr.
Gyzym: Oh, I know. Every single round cracks me up and, you know, I keep thinking that the next one they're not going to be able to find these, you know, these perfect texts to go with these perfect moments and nope! Everytime, everytime it's amazing.
Kriken: Yup! I think there are nine of them now? Yes, part nine is the last one to come out.
Gyzym: Ooo, are there nine of them out? The last time I checked there were only eight. There's a new one!
Kriken: Oh, there's a new one!
Gyzym: That's exciting.
Kriken: So we've talked about some art and we've talked about some graphics and gif sets. Now I think it's time to delve into the enormous amount of fic that is available for this fandom right now.
Gyzym: There is so much fic. There is just so much fic and- and it's- I mean, it's unbelievable, it's amazing. I mean, I don't even- I don't even really know where to start because I feel like every author I've ever liked has, like, at least stuck their head into Avengers fandom, or stuck, you know, stuck their toes into the water. It's just unbelievable. It's just- I mean, it makes me so happy.
Kriken: I know Sam Storyteller, or Copperbadge, was actually my gateway into this fandom, um...
Gyzym: Really...
Kriken: Well before the movie came out - granted, not, you know, years before, but um... But he wrote something and threw it up and I read it because I read everything he writes, I- I just do.
Gyzym: Oh no no no, I do too. Are you talking about, um, Homefront?
Kriken: Was that the first one he put up? It might have been...
Gyzym: I think so. The one where Steve is, uh, grappling with sort of...
Kriken: With the PTSD and...
Gyzym: Yeah yeah yeah yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah. That's an amazing story.
Kriken: So he was my gateway and I've read everything he put out, including... He most recently, uh, posted "Avengers: The Epilogue", so it's completely...
Gyzym: I read that! That was amazing!
Kriken: It's complete Gen and just kind of a movie tag! And, uh- and a fix it, because Coulson came back.
Gyzym: I- I think that my favorite thing about that story... Oh, yeah, no - I can't say that because I will spoil the listeners, but there is a hilarious scene between Clint and Natasha in a bathtub and it's hysterical. Um, it's a great story. Everything- everything Sam does is amazing.
Kriken: Very true, and just because I know you probably- well, I don't know if you've read it, but he also wrote a Tony/Loki story...
Gyzym: Oh, I have NOT read that one.
Kriken: Called "Extremely Hot and Currently Female". Because... In case some people haven't gotten to this in their- you know, after seeing the movie and dying into fic, Loki can change form at will - hence the- the Loki/Slepnir mention earlier and he also... I don't know- currently in the comics I think he'd de-aged, but at one point he was female for a good stretch of time. So he- he can change his form and it's a wonderful...
Gyzym: Yeah. Yeah there's some real, canonical gender fluidity with that character, um, whether you want to look at the Norse mythology. Um, and I mean- I have not read that yet, but I will. "Extremely Hot and Currently Female" you said?
Kriken: Indeed!
Gyzym: Yeah, I'm gonna pick that up...
Kriken: So yes. For the Tony/Loki fans, that is definitely something you should check out.
Gyzym: Uh, I absolutely will, and on the topic of Loki... I can't imagine you thought I was gonna get through this entire thing without reccing something Postcard wrote. Um, but there is this Thor/Loki Boondock Saints AU that everyone should read that postcardmystery or ohnoyoubetterrun on Tumblr wrote, um, which I'm going to mispronounce this latin and she's going to be mad at me, but, uh, "defende nos in proelio", I think is how you say it? But, I mean, it's- it's Thor/Loki as the Boondock Saints and it's so good, it's just so good. Because if you've ever seen the Boondock Saints, you know, it's this very brutal, intense film and Thor and Loki in this story are these very brutal, intense, fucked-up brothers and it's just, ugh, it's amazing. It's amazing! Um, and then...
You know, I mean, really there's so many different things... I think is was Sirona who wrote the, uh, the Clint/Coulson where Clint turns into a Corgi?
Kriken: Yes!
Gyzym: It's just like... I can't even tell you how many times I've read that story because it's, like, my happy place. Like, mmm, this is the story where Clint turns into a corgi and it somehow works and it's amazing. And, um, you know, all of Foxxcub's stuff's great and, you know, Jibrailis, who is- If anyone hasn't "The Last Love Song of Anthony E. Stark"... Ugh, that story gutted me, just gutted me. I- I haven't felt that way after reading a piece of fanfiction in a LONG TIME. Ugh.
Kriken: What was the... Was there a pairing or was that a gen fic?
Gyzym: Oh, no no no, that's- I'm sorry, that's a Steve/Tony story, um...
Kriken: Well, and to maybe go a little light hearted, um, one of my favorite Steve/Tonys, which is actually comics based - it's Marvel 616 'verse, not movie 'verse - but, "Secrets of a Successful Marriage" by Valtyr...
Gyzym: Ugh, everything Valtyr has written, everything Valtyr has written is worth reading. There's the roman AU...
Kriken: Oh god, the roman AU...
Gyzym: Um, there's "Secrets of a Successful Marriage" which is seriously one of my favorite fics of all time. Uh, there is... What is the title of the really long, really good one?
Kriken: Let's see... Are you talking about "Tomorrow Belongs to Me"?
Gyzym: Yes. Yes, "Tomorrow Belongs to Me". Thank you, thank you. Ugh, I love that story, I love it.
Kriken: Um, you mentioned Foxxcub...
Gyzym: Yes. Yes, I mean- I've loved Foxxcub's writing for so many fandoms. We've jumped through so many fandoms and ended up in the same place and I've always loved her work, it's just great.
Kriken: I think- I thought "Bulletproof" was fantastic, which, um, starts out as a Steve/Tony and then has a- a kind of companion that's Clint/Coulson and then Sirona wrote, like, uh...
Gyzym: This whole Clint/Coulson... Oh I know, I know! It just... The hive brain and like, the... and they work so well together, and like... Normally when people do that, you know, there's a little bit of a disconnect, but they just, ugh. They just- those two stories work so well together. And then there's the sequel, right? "Launch Your Assault"?
Kriken: Ugh, so good...
Gyzym: So good. It's just- it's all so good. And, I mean- Foxxcub has always written amazing high school AUs, always. Um...
Kriken: Which, I guess we should- should say, that this is a college AU and not a, uh- not a canon movie 'verse fic.
Gyzym: Yeah. Yes yes yes yes yes.
Kriken: So, let's see. Do you have any Rage Against the Machine, or Rage the Machine... Let's see, which one is it...
Gyzym: Uh, Rage Against the Machine, or Stark Spangled Banner. I can't make any recs in that area at this time only because I honestly don't remember what I've read. Like, I just have this huge ball of feelings and all these little scenes I remember from things, but not actually any concrete memories of full stories because I'm, like, too excited to remember.
Kriken: There was one I read really recently... Ooo! "Head/Heart/Lungs" by triedunture.
Gyzym: Oh my god, that was amazing.
Kriken: And I think I got that rec from Ironfries on Tumblr, but I'm so glad I followed that.
Gyzym: I... I found that one on AO3 because I'm been finding most- I've just been sort of, like, trolling through AO3. Yeah, that's an amazing story, it's an amazing story.
Kriken: Do you have any Natasha/Pepper fic that you would like to rec?
Gyzym: Um, everybody should read all of the Natasha/Pepper that Siria wrote because it was all great. You can find her on AO3 at, uh, Siriaeve: s-i-r-i-a-e-v-e and that's- she's there on Tumblr, on Livejournal - everywhere, that's her username and she writes these gorgeous little snippets of all these different characters and some of what she does is Natasha/Pepper and it's gorgeous. Not... There's not as much, uh- There's not as much Natasha/Pepper out there as I would like there to be, but most of what I've come across has been really great. They show up a lot as a secondary pairing, um, in- in sort of larger stories. Uh, and I want everybody to write more of them because I want more Natasha/Pepper to read... I just want to read all the Natasha/Pepper. I want to read all the things, I'm sorry, this is like, officially me unraveling into nonsense. I can't be allowed to talk this long, I lose my mind.
Kriken: Um, real quick - are there any vids that you want to talk about?
Gyzym: Um, there- okay, so there is an Avengers vid from months and months back, um, that is to 30 Seconds to Mars' "This is War", uh, and it is still my favorite Avengers fanvid because it's amazing. I saw one two days ago that I'm going to pull up now so I can, uh, rec the artist... From gallifreytomars, is the Youtube user, and it's so good. It's... the editing on it is so, so sharp and then, um... There's fiveyearmission on Tumblr does the most incredible vids I've ever seen. Just- that I've ever seen. Um, she... I think she's done, uh, just a Captain America one and a Tony Stark one, and they are both... I mean, the editing is unreal, the cuts are so sharp, and it just... the structure of these vids is- is unbelievable and her music choice is great too, so fiveyearmission.tumblr.com, she's awesome.
Kriken: Are there any last minute feels that you just need to get out?
Gyzym: Um, if there isn't a Black Widow movie I'm gonna salt the Earth. If there is not a Black Widow movie, I don't- I don't know what's going to happen, but it's gonna be- It's gonna be not pretty. Uh, there is nothing I want more... I would- I would... You have been listening to me talk about Tony Stark this whole time - I would sacrifice Iron Man 3 for Black- for Black Widow 1. I really would.
Kriken: Those are some strong words...
Gyzym: I would- I would sac- I would definitely sacrifice Cap 2, I would definitely sacrifice Thor 2. There is- In fact, the only movie that I would not sacrifice for Avengers- for um, Black Widow 1 is Avengers 2 and that's because there will be Black Widow in it. If there is not Black Widow I will... react badly. I will react really badly. If there is not a Black Widow movie I. Will. Salt. The. Earth. That is my last... my last feeling.
Kriken: Thank you very much for talking with us, it was such a pleasure...
Gyzym: Thank you so much for, er, for inviting me to do this and for having me on and putting up with the, uh, assorted technical problems and my ability to stop talking. It's a blast.
Kriken: If any of you are a fan of the Avengers please stop by the comments section of the post-show post and share your favorite fanworks. There's no way that we hit even the smallest portion of what is available right now for the Avengers. Um, and if you would like to pimp your fandom on Slashcast, leave a comment on the post-show post or email us at islashdoyou at gmail.com. Thanks for listening!
Transcribed by kriken
Host: kriken
Guest: gyzym
Fandom: The Avengers (MCU)
Kriken: Welcome to Pimp My Fandom for this episode of Slashcast. My name is kriken and my guest today is gyzym or Jizz. And what fandom are you going to be pimping today?
Gyzym: Uh, I am going to be pimping the Avengers fandom today - which to be fair, is kind of pimping itself, but uh-
Kriken: The reason why we chose Avengers for this PMF was specifically because the movie just came out and everyone's had about a month to watch it multiple times, to absorb it, to really explore and... We just, you know, want to continue that trend.
Gyzym: I am, uh, always about exploration of this particular film/body of comics/group of people, so...
Kriken: Well and, here's a question: did you come into it through MCU, or the Marvel Cinematic Universe, or did you start as a comics fan?
Gyzym: So... Hmm. That's a complicated answer. I read an obsessive amount of the Iron Man comics when I was a kid. Um, I read no Captain America, I read no generalized Avengers. My- my Tony Stark obsession started young and never quit. Um, and then when I got older, um, I ended up picking up a couple of the other comics and sort of getting into them in a peripheral way and then there was Robert Downey Jr. and Iron Man and I was like, "Oh right! I am hugely obsessed with this character AND this actor." And, uh, then- Then I started really reading comics in earnest; not just Iron Man, but comics across the board. So by the time... Well, I shouldn't really say by the time the movie came out. By the time the first trailer for this film came out and pulled me into the fandom, uh, I was- I was a comics fan. But I didn't necessarily start out that way, I really started as an Iron Man fan and then kinda was like, "Oh right, look at all these other people. Just because they don't all have alcohol abuse problems and daddy issues doesn't mean they're not worth my attention!" And then I was sucked in. And I should mention that- that the X-Men had something to do with it too, because I did, like, sort of zig zag through all the Marvel... everything and then land firmly in Avengers, so...
Kriken: Well, and Marvel does a good job of zig zagging itself.
Gyzym: Exactly. There's sort of no avoiding it if you're not just, you know, wearing blinders that say Iron Man on both sides like I was a kid.
Kriken: Well, and so... I guess in case anyone's been hiding under a rock or maybe just hasn't been paying a whole lot of attention to the way fandom has exploded lately, do you want to just do a quick walk through of the main cast?
Gyzym: Absolutely. Um, so, just focusing on the Avengers for a second and then we can- then we can at some point branch out into Loki, um... Who based on fandom's reaction really almost needs his own show.
Kriken: Oh, seriously.
Gyzym: There's... There's so much Loki, but no. We'll get there, we'll get there.
Kriken: Okay.
Gyzym: Iron Man who is Tony Stark, Captain America who is Steve Rogers, the Black Widow who is Natasha Romanov - who was flawless in this film, uh, just flawless! Uh, Thor, who you may have seen in "Thor". Uh, Clint Barton - Hawkeye, who again, ugh, so many feelings, so unexpected because in the comic books... And I mean, I love him, but in a like "Aww, Hawkeye" kinda way. I mean it's just- it's so purple. The suit is just so purple. I mean, and you know, he rocks it, good for him, but you don't really look at Hawkeye and go, "Wow, I have some really serious, invested, thought out emotions about you"; you're like, "No, that was funny, Hawkeye. Shoot it again."
But, as SHIELD, obviously we've got Nick Fury, manipulation master; Phil Coulson, who I'm not even really sure I'm ready to talk about yet; uh, Maria Hill who was awesome; and then Galaga guy who I really feel should have his own fanfiction community...
Kriken: I love Joss Whedon, can I just say that? That was such a Joss Whedon moment.
Gyzym: It was such a Joss Whedon moment and I... You know what? I've seen the movie a couple of times since then and it has never stopped being funny.
Oh my god, I didn't say Bruce Banner! I knew I had said- I hadn't said somebody before.
Kriken: Oh!
Gyzym: Bruce Banner and the Hulk, played by Mark Ruffalo who has been my favorite actor since The Brothers Bloom came out and if anybody who's listening to this has not seen The Brothers Bloom, they should all go see The Brothers Bloom because it's amazing.
Kriken: And I can't believe we forgot Bruce Banner because Hulk was, like, the break-out character. Like, very few people went into the movie going, "Oh, I'm gonna love the Hulk." But everyone came out of it going, "He had the best scenes in the movie!"
Gyzym: I know! Well and- it was hard to go into that movie thinking, "Oh, I'm gonna love the Hulk" because having seen the previous Hulk films, how could you think that? But then he was amazing! So... Was that everybody, have we talked about... Oh, Pepper. Gotta love Pepper Potts, um, for the two seconds she was in the movie. And... and Loki. And I think that is everyone who made an appearance including Galaga guy.
Kriken: Uh, so, an ensemble cast - lots of people to look at, lots of people to- to interact with and personally I felt it was a very well done ensemble cast. It could have been very easily overwhelming with the amount of storylines that could have tried to take over.
Gyzym: Absolutely agreed. To see something like The Avengers with so many different players and so much history, and you know, huge questions of- of where they are in their own plot lines, coming together to make a cohesive storyline like this is really a huge achievement no matter how you look at it.
Kriken: So, and with that huge ensemble cast, we're obviously going to have a lot of pairings to talk about.
Gyzym: Yeah...
Kriken: The main theme that I've been seeing everywhere is pretty much that everyone ships Avenger/Avenger. Really, there are very few people with, like, hardcore... I can only read this ship and this is the only thing I see. There's branches and there's OT3s and there's... It's been amazing, just, seeing everything that's been coming out as we built up towards the movie and then right afterwards.
Gyzym: It really is. I mean, it's just phenomenal. Like I'm just... So often I, like, look at fandom and go, "Wow, this is amazing..." That there are so many different ideas and permutations of ideas and ways these characters are drawn together - and also, somebody came up with Stark Spangled Banner.
Kriken: Oh, that is the best name ever.
Gyzym: Is that not the best ship name of all time? Like, I still can't handle it. Everytime I think about it I'm happy. I don't even need fic, I'm just like, "Oh, awesome. Awesome."
Kriken: Right there. It's all you got, it's all you need.
Normally we try and stick to just a handful of the pairings, but because this is the comics episode and we're dedicating a lot of time to the Avengers I feel that it's appropriate to just kinda walk through at least a little bit about each one of them. I don't know about you.
Gyzym: Sure. I- look, I'm always- I'm always up for that game.
Kriken: So, do you want to start at... Do you have favorites? I was about to say start at your favorite, but that's not necessarily an easy thing to do!
Gyzym: Uh, well - I mean, I have... I don't have favorites. I do have pairing that I know I'm known for writing. I wrote a bunch of Tony/Steve, so I think I want to start with Tony/Steve? Only because I know I know that ground really well. That is where my feelings really started and so there's a special spot in my multi-shipper heart for like, "Aw, you guys. You guys were my introduction to this, uh- this whole crazy mess."
But, the thing about Tony and Steve, right? Is that they are in so many ways EXACT opposites; like just, exact opposites. Like not, you know- Tony is the technology guy and Steve is the man out of time and, you know, Tony is hugely, like, in many ways a disrespectful, giant asshole - god love him - and Steve is like, you know, the stand-up guy... But they also have these similarities in, you know, their stubbornness and in how important to them, you know, this crime fighting stuff really is. And in the comics those similarities end up being, you know, a big basis of their friendship and what was so cool about seeing them interact in this film as opposed to imagining how they were going to interact for the six months before the film came out based on a trailer... Uh, you know, what was so cool about seeing them interact in this film is that there is this huge canonical history of the Iron Man-Captain America friendship and what's happened to it and the Civil War and, you know, all this crazy stuff that makes up that relationship. And to see it starting out, to watch the way that they really don't get along at the beginning, and all these ways that they're testing each other and pushing at each other and sort of vying to get to that spot where they can really look at one another as equal ground, is fascinating.
Kriken: How about... One of the big pairings that came out of the movie, partially because Mark Ruffalo did such a fantastic job as Bruce Banner, um, was Tony/Bruce, the Science Bros. I'm sure you saw it as well as anyone else...
Gyzym: Oh my god, I have... I just, I have so many feelings about the two of them. Just so many. Like, I so was... I did not see that coming. I didn't even- like, it didn't even occur to me that that was gonna be what I came out of that movie shipping. A huge part of what really set me off there was, you know, they're really- in a lot of ways they're mirrors of each other. You know, because, Tony Stark has this huge self loathing piece to his character and, of course, Bruce Banner is in a physical battle with the literal worst version of himself. Any Tony is- thinks that he is the literal worst version of himself and that Iron Man is how he's supposed to... Iron Man is to Bruce Banner as Tony Start is to the Hulk. And Joss Whedon just hit it out of the park with that- that scene where Tony is, like, trying to help Bruce because there are things that he really has never been able to say to himself that he identifies with and there's that pane of glass between them, that computer screen between them and it just... It looks like this mirror, you know, because they are the opposite sides of the same coin and ugh... God.
Kriken: Well, and then on top of that, you have, um, the big battle scene at the end.
Gyzym: Oh, I know. And I mean... So first of all, I have to say that every time I watch the battle scene at the end and every time I ever thing about the battle scene at the end, I'm immediately drawn to remembering that gingerhaze comic where the Hulk is like, "Hulk is tired of catch duty." Because that would get so exhausting if you were the Hulk, you know, just Avengers falling off of things left and right.
But, um, you know... That moment where the Hulk, who's been, you know, throughout the film seen as this uncontrollable character who is first of all more in control because Banner has embraced him, you know, in the sense that he has, you know, let him out - he's always angry, he let him out, which is just really, really I thought maybe the best thing about this film? Was that moment where Bruce says, "I'm always angry," and it just brings this whole other layer to this character, ugh... But then of course, you know, he catches Tony because Tony has been the one who's been the one who's been arguing for that acceptance for this whole movie. And, ugh, it's a beautiful moment, so beautiful.
Kriken: Oh, it definitely is. And then again, even before that when he's the one that says- when Tony is the one that says, "Let me know when Bruce gets here. He's gonna come."
Gyzym: Yes, yes. Well and that's, you know... It's so much easier for Tony Stark to have faith in other people than it is for Tony Stark to have faith in himself and there's so much about that character that is meant to be seen as, you know, this narcissistic, incredible self absorbed guy, but, you know, he's really not and it's moments like that that really display it because somebody that everybody else has looked at as, you know, a bad bet at best and a liability at worst, Tony Stark looks at and says, "He's gonna come, he's gonna be an asset, he's gonna help us do this." And just, ugh... Ugh, it's just such a god movie, it's just such a good movie I can't get over it.
Kriken: What about Thor/Loki is it that draws you in?
Gyzym: One of the pairings that I hugely ship in this canon but can't technically ship in this movie because of course Bucky Barnes isn't in this movie is Bucky Barnes and it's because- Bucky Barnes and Steve Rogers and it's because, you know, they grew up together, they have this shared history and... You know, I'm- I'm not really much for... I hugely support other people shipping it, but I have never been a big, you know, incest shipper by and large, but because Thor and Loki are NOT brothers it opens you up to this whole realm of possibility where they have this hugely fantastical childhood, and then Odin who is just, like, the worst parent and, you know, who is sort of guiding both of them and lying to Loki and, you know, they've got all these really complicated feelings- Well okay, no. Loki has all these really complicated feelings about Thor and Thor has pretty much one feeling about Loki, which is, "I love you, you're awesome, COME HOME, stop doing this stuff." Um, which, I mean, in and of itself is such an interesting angle for a love story because Thor is so, like, "I just want this to not be happening and I want you to be happy," and Loki is like, "I will NEVER be happy, nothing will EVER be good," and, you know, "I must destroy all of the things!" And Thor is just like, "What? Can't we just... Hugs?" And Loki's like, "I want NO hugs!" and then, at the same time, like, clearly is in need of some serious, industrial strength, reinforced with kevlar type hugging. So, you know, it's just... They're really interesting and they're also, you know, they're on that level playing field; whereas a ship like Tony/Loki or, you know, Clint/Loki - especially Clint/Loki - because the brain control aspect of it and the consent aspect of it, that doesn't work for me.
Kriken: How about some Clint/Coulson. How are you on the Clint/Phil?
Gyzym: I- I love Clint enough that I would love him with pretty much anybody. I have huge, unexpected Hawkeye feelings. Um, but I was reading Clint/Coulson even before the movie came out because I think there's... I think there's always a draw to the pairing of hugely competent human being/hugely competent human being and Clint has all these, like, meaty abandonment issues in a lot of, like, versions of him including in the comics version in a lot of ways, you know, because all these people have left him and he's got this whole, screwed up back story, you know. And then there's Coulson who's just, like, SO business oriented and I think they're... I don't know, I think they're great. I think they're great!
Kriken: Very much agreed. I've actually, aside from Tony/Steve, I think Clint/Coulson has been one of my favorite pairings to read in fanfic and the movie just... made that so much better. Especially with that scene where he's calling Natasha.
Gyzym: Yes. Yes yes yes. And the way that he says... I mean, every- for anybody- I know this is Slashcast, but you know, I also have giant Clint/Natasha feelings, but the way... But the way, uh, that that scene plays out, um... Which really, I mean, part of me is just, like, screw it - all three of them, you know?
Kriken: Right?
Gyzym: Clint/Coulson/Natasha all the way. Because that's just, like, such a married moment all around. Like, for both of them individually and for the concept of all three of them together because the way that Coulson says it and the way that Natasha reacts to it and just... ugh. I don't know. I don't know. I just want them to all... Like, I think- I think in my head at one point something just broke on the SHIELD- on the SHIELD helicarrier and they just all... They're all together with everyone. Like, I just can't handle it.
Kriken: How about Clint/Bruce?
Gyzym: Love it. Loved it even before the movie came out, uh, partially because I think that in some ways they're... I don't want to say the odd men out, but a little bit they are. You know, canonically in the comics Hawkeye has, um... Has some doubts and I can't remember where he stated them, but I know I've seen it - but he talks about how sometimes- He talks about- I think the direct quote is, "I don't miss because if I miss, I'm just a guy with a bow." And that's why he never misses, you know, he's got this whole identity thing about not necessarily having these crazy super powers and of course Bruce, when he's not the Hulk, he's just a guy who would really like to be doing some science and, you know, had this thing happen to him that he's still trying to work through. And, you know, I think that in a room full of people that, you know... It's those two and Tony Stark, who even when he's not in his Iron Man suit is constantly covered with his own technology, and Steve, who's a super soldier, and Thor who's a god, and Natasha who is, you know, so unbelievably physically capable that it's really staggering? And then to be Bruce and Clint, you know, with this sort of very- either very specific skill sets or skill sets that involve becoming something that you can't control. I think that there would almost naturally be a certain camaraderie there.
Kriken: And just because we don't want anyone to think that we're forgetting them, there is Natasha and Pepper.
Gyzym: Oh my god, which I ship like burning. Like Burning.
Kriken: The two red heads, that's very appropriate.
Gyzym: Um, I ship anybody- I ship the two of them with Maria Hill, too, I ship Pepper and Maria Hill, I ship, uh, Natasha/Maria Hill, I ship all three of them together, but especially Natasha/Pepper because there's just so much to work with in Iron Man 2. Like...
Kriken: Oh my god...
Gyzym: The degree to which they, you know, they start out and Pepper's like, "I don't trust you," and Natasha's, like, being a spy and Pepper is spot on to be, like, "I don't know about this..." And then, you know, they have this relationship that builds up where, you know, they're both against Tony and Tony's like, "Oh, whatever, wounded," and they're like, "Whatever, we're busy running companies and being complete badasses. Sit down, shut up, keep dying from that blood poisoning." And you know, I think, um... I think they're great in that movie. I love the way they interact with one another, I love the way they play off one another, and I love the idea of, you know, the two of them just sort of being like, "Right, okay, so we're gonna rise above some of this ridiculousness that's going on." Because that's really Natasha's role in a lot of this film. You know, there's a lot of posturing and all these, you know, like dudes going back and forth and being, like, "Well, you know, why don't you put on the suit?" and, you know, "I'm gonna call you a horrible name from medieval english." You know, Natasha's just like, "Yeah, whatever, I'm doing my job and being way better at it than you, buh bye." And, you know, that's Pepper's role in a lot of ways. You know, she has, you know, spent all this time as a character dealing with, uh, Tony which would just be the worst job. Like, can you imagine having Tony Stark as your job? Ugh, it would just be awful. And you know, she's just like, "Whatever, I am totally managing it," and I don't know... They didn't actually say clearly, uh, what her role is at Stark now in the film, but based on, you know, the interaction between her and Tony, you know, it's clearly- they're clearly on this equal footing level now and I just- I just love the idea of her and Natasha, like, together and way better than everyone around them. I just- I just can't help it, I just... Ugh.
I know that I've written a couple of stories where they're either a side pairing or one where they were Pepper and War from Good Omens as well as themselves, um... Which, in retrospect, I don't really remember how that happened. I know I wrote it..
Kriken: I'm not gonna question it, it was wonderful to read.
Gyzym: Well, thank you, but I am, like, trying to remember the impetus of that story and I don't. But the point being that they're amazing and I love them.
Kriken: And I think we've burned through the list the list that I had jotted down real quick, can you think of anyone we've missed?
Gyzym: There are the, you know, the assorted Thor/people who aren't Loki, but I haven't really noticed any of that. Like, pretty much people are shipping Thor with Loki...
Kriken: And that's about it.
Gyzym: And that's about it, yeah. Which is, you know, which is really interesting because Thor is great. I love Thor, I love Thor so much. Like, I- I actually would happily read thousands and thousands and thousands of words of just Thor gen. He's just so great. Thor is awesome, that is all I want to say.
Kriken: Let's talk about where people can find stuff. So, um, from my experience, most of the Avengers squee has been happening on Tumblr.
Gyzym: Yeah. Yeah, I'd say that's about right. Although I think that people are doing a really good job of... And I say people and not me, by the way, because I'm doing a horrible job at this because I am HORRIBLE at this, but people who aren't me are doing a really good job of, you know, when they actually produce fic on Tumblr, you know, cross posting it to AO3. Most of the squee seems to be going on on Tumblr, there's a little bit on Twitter, uh, which is mostly because Tom Hiddleston is on Twitter...
Kriken: And he feeds the fan girls...
Gyzym: ...and Mark Ruffalo's on Twitter. And Chris Evan's got a Twitter yesterday and, oh my god, it's like...
Kriken: He's so freakin' cute.
Gyzym: He's so cute! His mother is teaching him to tweet, it's so precious, I can't handle it.
Kriken: I love that gif that's going- or not even, I don't even think it's a gif, just a screen shot of his mother telling him how to use it with pics of his face going...
Gyzym: Oh, you mean the, uh, the clips that are consistently, like- that keep popping up in, uh, Steve/Tony gif sets and the assorted Steve/Tony gif sets that are amazing of Steve and Tony as Peter Parker's dads.
Kriken: Oh my god...
Gyzym: Which, there's one of them that, like, crosses that over with The Social Network, and I just... Ugh, like, I can't- there's just so much, just so much fandom happening at once it's unbelievable. It's amazing!
Kriken: And, you know, I have to say, if there is- I don't know that I could pick one favorite cliche in this fandom, but the Steve/Tony as Mom and Dad dichotomy that gives over to- especially when it comes to Peter, ugh...
Gyzym: I mean, god knows that, um, that I have some problems with that particular cliche because...
Kriken: I wouldn't call it a problem, I thought Bed- Bedtime Stories was lovely.
Gyzym: I, uh... Bedtime Stories were lovely in the sense that I could just write them without, like, you know- it was amazing! I was just, like, writing things with no capitalization or punctuation and people were like, "Oh yeah, okay, I'll read that." I wish my actual, day-to-day life could go that way.
Kriken: Well, and I absolutely love all of the fanart and stuff that's spun off of it, especially...Ironfries loved that story so much that she's got, like, half a dozen different little comics and art panels associated with it. I love the one that- the 'Vengers turtle...
Gyzym: Oh my god, so true story, that happened because there was a period of time where I was stories and all Ironfries and I ever did, when we talked to each other, was, like, squeel about babies. Because, like- you know, I don't normally... I think it's the only kid!fic I've ever written, I don't know what happened to me. I just, like- Tony, Steve, and a baby and my brain just, like, broke around that concept. Um, we went through this period- this phase where we kept talking about the assorted things, the assorted ways that- that Jaime could bastardize the word Avengers when he was learning to talk and I don't even remember how we landed on 'venger turtle, um, because in retrospect, why would you put 'venger- why would you say 'venger turtle? Like wha- why would-? Oh my god, and then she drew it and it was just the cutest thing in the history of time. Like, it's still SO cute, I still cannot handle how cute all the art she did for that was, but then again, you know, I- my love for Ironfries is quite large.
Kriken: Well, and understandably so!
Gyzym: Yeah, yeah. She's hugely talented, she's HUGELY talented. So many- you know, so many of the fan artists in this fandom... I mean, so many of the fan artists in general in fandom are unbelievably talented, but I've just be blown away with the Avengers art, just blown away, it's unbelievable the stuff people are putting out.
Kriken: Agreed. And from there we can transition to maybe doing some of the recs. So...
Gyzym: Oh yeah, we totally can.
Kriken: So specifically for art recs, there's obviously Ironfries. Marielikestodraw... Marie has some...
Gyzym: I was about to say, there's obviously Ironfries, there's obviously Marie. Uh, everybody should check out nogutsnoglory.tumblr.com, their art is gorgeous, unbelievable, incredible line work, especially this Bruce/Tony stuff...
Kriken: One of the other artists that I really like is, um, Joannaestep. She has some beautiful Steve/Tony, but she's also- she's a HUGE Loki fan and she has some absolutely gorgeous art, um, that delves...
Gyzym: Oh! I know who you're talking about! Oh my god, that stuff is so well done...
Kriken: She does the Slepnir and...
Gyzym: Oh yeah yeah yeah, I saw- I saw that this morning! I saw that this morning, oh my god she's... And her use of color is unreal.
Kriken: Oh, it's beautiful. Like, I love all of her Loki art to death. I mean, I love all of her art in general, but...
Gyzym: Oh yeah, no, I am totally there with you. Oh, and um... whoever is behind the askashieldagent ask blog is a) hilarious and b)incredibly talented in a- in a... they're not chibis, those characters, but the way that they draw is hugely evocative in terms of humor.
Kriken: Well, and there's irosyan...
Gyzym: Oh yeah...
Kriken: ...Who does Powerpuff Girl style Avengers art, which is hilarious...
Gyzym: Yeah, and those little gifs where they fly around and, ugh, it's so funny. And, I mean, and the number of incredible graphics out there, too, is really just stunning, just stunning. I mean, the work that people are doing blows me away. Oh! Um, oh, I don't know if hoursago has done slash art... I know them because of their Clint/Natasha, but they're amazing... Oh, we've got Clint and Thor.
Kriken: Hey, there we go.
Gyzym: Awesome. Everybody go check out hoursago.tumblr.com or, uh, blue fox on Deviant Art. Their art is gorgeous. And admittedly, admittedly that rec was drawn from this Clint/Natasha thing that I'm still staring at because I can't get over it, but also the rest of her art is equally stunning.
Kriken: Speaking of graphics, I have absolutely been loving the "Texts from the Avengers" that's been coming out of the bartonesque blog on tumblr.
Gyzym: Oh, I know. Every single round cracks me up and, you know, I keep thinking that the next one they're not going to be able to find these, you know, these perfect texts to go with these perfect moments and nope! Everytime, everytime it's amazing.
Kriken: Yup! I think there are nine of them now? Yes, part nine is the last one to come out.
Gyzym: Ooo, are there nine of them out? The last time I checked there were only eight. There's a new one!
Kriken: Oh, there's a new one!
Gyzym: That's exciting.
Kriken: So we've talked about some art and we've talked about some graphics and gif sets. Now I think it's time to delve into the enormous amount of fic that is available for this fandom right now.
Gyzym: There is so much fic. There is just so much fic and- and it's- I mean, it's unbelievable, it's amazing. I mean, I don't even- I don't even really know where to start because I feel like every author I've ever liked has, like, at least stuck their head into Avengers fandom, or stuck, you know, stuck their toes into the water. It's just unbelievable. It's just- I mean, it makes me so happy.
Kriken: I know Sam Storyteller, or Copperbadge, was actually my gateway into this fandom, um...
Gyzym: Really...
Kriken: Well before the movie came out - granted, not, you know, years before, but um... But he wrote something and threw it up and I read it because I read everything he writes, I- I just do.
Gyzym: Oh no no no, I do too. Are you talking about, um, Homefront?
Kriken: Was that the first one he put up? It might have been...
Gyzym: I think so. The one where Steve is, uh, grappling with sort of...
Kriken: With the PTSD and...
Gyzym: Yeah yeah yeah yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah. That's an amazing story.
Kriken: So he was my gateway and I've read everything he put out, including... He most recently, uh, posted "Avengers: The Epilogue", so it's completely...
Gyzym: I read that! That was amazing!
Kriken: It's complete Gen and just kind of a movie tag! And, uh- and a fix it, because Coulson came back.
Gyzym: I- I think that my favorite thing about that story... Oh, yeah, no - I can't say that because I will spoil the listeners, but there is a hilarious scene between Clint and Natasha in a bathtub and it's hysterical. Um, it's a great story. Everything- everything Sam does is amazing.
Kriken: Very true, and just because I know you probably- well, I don't know if you've read it, but he also wrote a Tony/Loki story...
Gyzym: Oh, I have NOT read that one.
Kriken: Called "Extremely Hot and Currently Female". Because... In case some people haven't gotten to this in their- you know, after seeing the movie and dying into fic, Loki can change form at will - hence the- the Loki/Slepnir mention earlier and he also... I don't know- currently in the comics I think he'd de-aged, but at one point he was female for a good stretch of time. So he- he can change his form and it's a wonderful...
Gyzym: Yeah. Yeah there's some real, canonical gender fluidity with that character, um, whether you want to look at the Norse mythology. Um, and I mean- I have not read that yet, but I will. "Extremely Hot and Currently Female" you said?
Kriken: Indeed!
Gyzym: Yeah, I'm gonna pick that up...
Kriken: So yes. For the Tony/Loki fans, that is definitely something you should check out.
Gyzym: Uh, I absolutely will, and on the topic of Loki... I can't imagine you thought I was gonna get through this entire thing without reccing something Postcard wrote. Um, but there is this Thor/Loki Boondock Saints AU that everyone should read that postcardmystery or ohnoyoubetterrun on Tumblr wrote, um, which I'm going to mispronounce this latin and she's going to be mad at me, but, uh, "defende nos in proelio", I think is how you say it? But, I mean, it's- it's Thor/Loki as the Boondock Saints and it's so good, it's just so good. Because if you've ever seen the Boondock Saints, you know, it's this very brutal, intense film and Thor and Loki in this story are these very brutal, intense, fucked-up brothers and it's just, ugh, it's amazing. It's amazing! Um, and then...
You know, I mean, really there's so many different things... I think is was Sirona who wrote the, uh, the Clint/Coulson where Clint turns into a Corgi?
Kriken: Yes!
Gyzym: It's just like... I can't even tell you how many times I've read that story because it's, like, my happy place. Like, mmm, this is the story where Clint turns into a corgi and it somehow works and it's amazing. And, um, you know, all of Foxxcub's stuff's great and, you know, Jibrailis, who is- If anyone hasn't "The Last Love Song of Anthony E. Stark"... Ugh, that story gutted me, just gutted me. I- I haven't felt that way after reading a piece of fanfiction in a LONG TIME. Ugh.
Kriken: What was the... Was there a pairing or was that a gen fic?
Gyzym: Oh, no no no, that's- I'm sorry, that's a Steve/Tony story, um...
Kriken: Well, and to maybe go a little light hearted, um, one of my favorite Steve/Tonys, which is actually comics based - it's Marvel 616 'verse, not movie 'verse - but, "Secrets of a Successful Marriage" by Valtyr...
Gyzym: Ugh, everything Valtyr has written, everything Valtyr has written is worth reading. There's the roman AU...
Kriken: Oh god, the roman AU...
Gyzym: Um, there's "Secrets of a Successful Marriage" which is seriously one of my favorite fics of all time. Uh, there is... What is the title of the really long, really good one?
Kriken: Let's see... Are you talking about "Tomorrow Belongs to Me"?
Gyzym: Yes. Yes, "Tomorrow Belongs to Me". Thank you, thank you. Ugh, I love that story, I love it.
Kriken: Um, you mentioned Foxxcub...
Gyzym: Yes. Yes, I mean- I've loved Foxxcub's writing for so many fandoms. We've jumped through so many fandoms and ended up in the same place and I've always loved her work, it's just great.
Kriken: I think- I thought "Bulletproof" was fantastic, which, um, starts out as a Steve/Tony and then has a- a kind of companion that's Clint/Coulson and then Sirona wrote, like, uh...
Gyzym: This whole Clint/Coulson... Oh I know, I know! It just... The hive brain and like, the... and they work so well together, and like... Normally when people do that, you know, there's a little bit of a disconnect, but they just, ugh. They just- those two stories work so well together. And then there's the sequel, right? "Launch Your Assault"?
Kriken: Ugh, so good...
Gyzym: So good. It's just- it's all so good. And, I mean- Foxxcub has always written amazing high school AUs, always. Um...
Kriken: Which, I guess we should- should say, that this is a college AU and not a, uh- not a canon movie 'verse fic.
Gyzym: Yeah. Yes yes yes yes yes.
Kriken: So, let's see. Do you have any Rage Against the Machine, or Rage the Machine... Let's see, which one is it...
Gyzym: Uh, Rage Against the Machine, or Stark Spangled Banner. I can't make any recs in that area at this time only because I honestly don't remember what I've read. Like, I just have this huge ball of feelings and all these little scenes I remember from things, but not actually any concrete memories of full stories because I'm, like, too excited to remember.
Kriken: There was one I read really recently... Ooo! "Head/Heart/Lungs" by triedunture.
Gyzym: Oh my god, that was amazing.
Kriken: And I think I got that rec from Ironfries on Tumblr, but I'm so glad I followed that.
Gyzym: I... I found that one on AO3 because I'm been finding most- I've just been sort of, like, trolling through AO3. Yeah, that's an amazing story, it's an amazing story.
Kriken: Do you have any Natasha/Pepper fic that you would like to rec?
Gyzym: Um, everybody should read all of the Natasha/Pepper that Siria wrote because it was all great. You can find her on AO3 at, uh, Siriaeve: s-i-r-i-a-e-v-e and that's- she's there on Tumblr, on Livejournal - everywhere, that's her username and she writes these gorgeous little snippets of all these different characters and some of what she does is Natasha/Pepper and it's gorgeous. Not... There's not as much, uh- There's not as much Natasha/Pepper out there as I would like there to be, but most of what I've come across has been really great. They show up a lot as a secondary pairing, um, in- in sort of larger stories. Uh, and I want everybody to write more of them because I want more Natasha/Pepper to read... I just want to read all the Natasha/Pepper. I want to read all the things, I'm sorry, this is like, officially me unraveling into nonsense. I can't be allowed to talk this long, I lose my mind.
Kriken: Um, real quick - are there any vids that you want to talk about?
Gyzym: Um, there- okay, so there is an Avengers vid from months and months back, um, that is to 30 Seconds to Mars' "This is War", uh, and it is still my favorite Avengers fanvid because it's amazing. I saw one two days ago that I'm going to pull up now so I can, uh, rec the artist... From gallifreytomars, is the Youtube user, and it's so good. It's... the editing on it is so, so sharp and then, um... There's fiveyearmission on Tumblr does the most incredible vids I've ever seen. Just- that I've ever seen. Um, she... I think she's done, uh, just a Captain America one and a Tony Stark one, and they are both... I mean, the editing is unreal, the cuts are so sharp, and it just... the structure of these vids is- is unbelievable and her music choice is great too, so fiveyearmission.tumblr.com, she's awesome.
Kriken: Are there any last minute feels that you just need to get out?
Gyzym: Um, if there isn't a Black Widow movie I'm gonna salt the Earth. If there is not a Black Widow movie, I don't- I don't know what's going to happen, but it's gonna be- It's gonna be not pretty. Uh, there is nothing I want more... I would- I would... You have been listening to me talk about Tony Stark this whole time - I would sacrifice Iron Man 3 for Black- for Black Widow 1. I really would.
Kriken: Those are some strong words...
Gyzym: I would- I would sac- I would definitely sacrifice Cap 2, I would definitely sacrifice Thor 2. There is- In fact, the only movie that I would not sacrifice for Avengers- for um, Black Widow 1 is Avengers 2 and that's because there will be Black Widow in it. If there is not Black Widow I will... react badly. I will react really badly. If there is not a Black Widow movie I. Will. Salt. The. Earth. That is my last... my last feeling.
Kriken: Thank you very much for talking with us, it was such a pleasure...
Gyzym: Thank you so much for, er, for inviting me to do this and for having me on and putting up with the, uh, assorted technical problems and my ability to stop talking. It's a blast.
Kriken: If any of you are a fan of the Avengers please stop by the comments section of the post-show post and share your favorite fanworks. There's no way that we hit even the smallest portion of what is available right now for the Avengers. Um, and if you would like to pimp your fandom on Slashcast, leave a comment on the post-show post or email us at islashdoyou at gmail.com. Thanks for listening!
Transcribed by kriken