Blogging Against Racism Week

[sarahmichigan]

I've seen it noted in a few places that this is "Blogging Against Racism Week

Comments

[_scarlet_ibis_]

Also, what about "reverse racism", which is really just racism... but we're not allowed to acknowledge it.

[sarahmichigan]

I don't like the term "reverse racism" because it implies there's a proper direction for racism. :)

But, yeah, I know what you're getting at. I think it falls into my third category (i.e. 'How can we talk about racism without accusations or shutting people down?')

[bernmarx]

There is a valid argument to be had that, in the United States, only whites are "racist," but that argument depends highly on how "racism" is defined. Using the simple dictionary definition, that racism is making negative assumptions about people based solely on the color of their skin, yes, of course blacks (and latinos and other minorities) can be racist. But in conversations on racism, there's frequently a more powerful definition at play: Racism is (in that view) using social power and traditional attitudes to make sure that certain privileges stay with people of a particular skin color. From that perspective, it's much less clear that blacks can be racist (although, to rebut myself, it's not impossible, depending on what "certain privileges" we're talking about -- certain members of the various "oppressed" classes have learned over the last decades how to leverage SWAMP* Guilt to get special treatment).

* Straight White Anglo Male Protestant, my own acronym.

only whites are "racist," but that argument depends highly on how "racism" is defined

[sarahmichigan]

Just to clarify, most minorities who make that argument say it's possible for a racial minority to be "prejudiced" but not "racist" because "racist" implies that the person so named has the power and/or privilege in that context.

[lefthand]

I find the whole issue of racism tiresome simply because I have heard it for so long. I don't think we are actually making any progress by making the subject taboo. The only thing that changes is that people stop talking about it around people who might alter their opinion / report them.

I personally believe that when we focus too closely on the words, they lose all meaning as is illustrated by your third point.

Tiresome

[sarahmichigan]

I think it's easy for white people to get sick of a discussion about race since we rarely experience it, to the point that it shocks us if/when we do.

I have, within my lifetime, heard a boss talk about not wanting to hire black people and have had a friend cursed out and called the "N" word by a boss upon her departure, so I hardly think that racism should just be swept under the rug and not discussed.

Re: Tiresome

[lefthand]

I have experienced it over and over from both ends. The problem is that it doesn't apply to the situations it should and is used as a club where it is inappropriate.

Stepping back, shouldn't it be someone's right to hire whomever they want? Shouldn't they be allowed to think, feel and say whatever they want? The problem with the racism debate is that presumes to tell people how they should think and that is just as wrong as being a bigoted idiot.

If we are going to talk about, we need to let go of the idea that there is a single way to to view the issue, otherwise it is simply a lecture rather than a conversation.

Re: Tiresome

[sarahmichigan]

Stepping back, shouldn't it be someone's right to hire whomever they want?
maybe, maybe not, but thinking/feeling is different than doing. I think that racist employers are probably shooting their own feet by not hiring diversely, but we do have workplace discrimination laws in place for a reason.

I'm really uncomfortable with just about everything you've ever said about racism (and much about feminism) on my LJ and hope that nobody thinks that I agree with you just because you're on my friends list.

[purple_marf]

I sometimes go a little too far in my belief that most questions have black & white answers (hah!). But on this one, it seems easy. Don't do it at work. You might have the funniest racially-charged joke on the planet, and if you told it, everyone within earshot would be convinced you were the wittiest guy alive. Don't tell it at work. Seriously. Why is it necessary?

Other than that, do what you want to. Unless you're a public govt offical(sorry, anything you say in public counts as being "at work" - you get plenty of other perks to make up for it), what you say on your own time is your own business.

[sarahmichigan]

But what about comedians who address racism through humor (i.e. Lenny Bruce, Chris Rock, Carlos Mencia, etc.)?

This is what I mean about the difference between a joke about race and a racist joke.

[bernmarx]

To what extent does Mencia (as a blatant example) make jokes aimed at bringing discussions of race to the forefront, and to what extent does he make such jokes because he also happens to be a bigot*, but since he's a Latino bigot, he can get away with it?

I don't know the answer (and I reckon that's something like what you're asking, too).

* I'm not saying he is, by the way.

[purple_marf]

Yeah, I stick to what I personally am going to do. I mean, it's easy to say now that anyone going to their shows KNOWS they're going to hear that kind of racially charged humor - but I wonder if their first few crowds were very tense, or mixed reactions?

Comedy is SO hard because it kind of relies on being outside your comfort zone in some respect just to be funny in the first place.

[sylo_tode]

I think a joke about race says, "Let's examine at this issue through humor."

A racist joke, however, says, "Let's degrade them by ridiculing them."

[bernmarx]

An excellent example of a joke about race (well, ethnicity, but the same basic conversation): Years ago, there was a Polish sports figure (I believe he was in football) who had a TV commercial for some product or other. In it, he said, "Sometimes people ask me what I think of Polish jokes. I'll tell you, I love Polish jokes! They're my favorite. Here's one, for instance..." and proceeds to tell a joke in Polish. It was a classic meta-joke, because on one level it showed him turning the prejudice on its ear, and on another it played off the "clueless Polack" stereotype (i.e., he was too dumb to know what a "Polish joke" was).

[purple_marf]

Well said.

[guttaperk]

I'd like to reply to you, but I'm too overwhelmed right now from recent discussions about race.

In the meantime, feel free to post. Don't worry about the glut of White Liberal Guilt- most of that is fake anyhow.

[sarahmichigan]

I'm feeling overwhelmed by the discussion I just started, so I can only imagine how you're doing with it.

Ironic that my post about not wanting to shut people down or point fingers during discussions of racism is infuriating me to the point that I want to start dropping people (or at least one person) off my FL. Ugh.

Exhausting discussion

[guttaperk]

Here.

If you want the abridged version, watch the video trailer (high-quality, or low-quality) and then start with my views on page three of the discussion.

Re: Exhausting discussion

[sarahmichigan]

Oh, good lord. Will we ever stop talking *past* one another and ever talk *to* one another? It seems in that discussion, a lot of it (I'm thinking of the Hoyle dude, particularly) are not reading closely and are responding to what they *think* people are saying instead of what people are actually saying.

*sigh*