fandom musings
In response to casira: Some random musings on the mystery of Snape and why Sirius suspected Remus
1.Why did Snape hate James so much?
There is something more at work than what we’ve read so far. In PoA Remus explains that Snape has told Dumbledore that Remus is not to be trusted: “He has his reasons. . . . you see, Sirius here played a trick on him which nearly killed him, a trick which involved me-“ p. 261. “We were in the same year, you know, and we- er- didn’t like each other very much. He especially disliked James. Jealous I think, of James’s talent on the Quidditch pitch-. . ..” (emphasis added).
And in OotP:
“Look, Harry,” said Sirius placatingly, “James and Snape hated each other from the moment they set eyes on each other, it was just one of those things, you can understand that can’t you? I think James was everything Snape wanted to be- he was popular, he was good at Quidditch, good at pretty much everything. And Snape was just this little oddball who was up to his eyes in the Dark Arts and James- whatever else he may have appeared to you, Harry- always hated the Dark Arts.” Am ed. 670 (emph added)
. . . “Even Snape?” said Harry.
“Well,” said Lupin slowly, “Snape was a special case. I mean, he never lost an opportunity to curse James, so you couldn’t really expect James to that that lying down, could you?” 671 (emph added).
Sirius was as much if not more arrogant than James in school. James was popular as well as bright and athletic. One has the sense not many people disliked him. Sirius, too, was brilliant [fn] and witty, but he was also manic, beautiful, arrogant and cruel. Sirius tried to kill Snape; James saved Snape’s life. So why did Snape hate James more? Why did he hate him from the moment he set eyes on him?
[fn] (I see Sirius as inherently brilliant and James as highly intelligent; Sirius was instinctive, James was logical and smart; Sirius was an artist, James was a tactician; James was a leader and probably a fair teacher, Sirius never lead anyone, never could be bothered to think of anyone else, but followed few, either)
I think James’ family had something to do with the down at the heels state of Snape’s family. Like maybe James’ father brought Snape’s father down, due to his association with the Dark Arts, perhaps Voldemort, and the two sons showed up at Hogwarts already knowing of each other and fighting their fathers’ fights. It’s why Snape can transfer his hatred to Harry so easily. It’s a family against family thing, and James saving Snape only deepened his sense of humiliation. Thoughts?
2. Many have presumed I think, that Snape was the person who informed Dumbledore that Voldemort had a spy in the Order. It would have made sense as a trial for Snape to bring Dumbledore a piece of real information (in this case tied to the prophesy that few knew about) as his first test after purportedly returning from the Dark Side. But Order members knew there was a spy and Peter was an Order member. If he’d known Snape had turned, Snape would have been killed.
What about if it was Regulus that brought the news?
Regulus died “some fifteen years” before Ootp began , or about the time Harry was born, shortly after the prophesy had been made. Ootp, 112, 839-840.
Sirius doesn’t seem to hate Regulus; he refers to him as a “stupid idiot. . . .he joined the Death Eaters.” Sirius was constantly reminded Regulus was the better son by his parents, not by Regulus. “I bet my parents thought Regulus was right little hero for joining up at first.”
But “he was killed by Voldemort. Or on Voldemort's orders, more likely. I doubt Regulus was ever important enough to be killed by Voldemort in person. From what I found out after he died, he got in so far, then panicked about what he was being asked to do and tried to back out. Well, you don’t just hand in your resignation of Voldemort. It’s a lifetime of service or death.”
What if Regulus tried to get a message to Sirius that the Potters were marked. What if Regulus was the source of the information that there was a spy in the Order, and had implied, directly or indirectly, to Sirius that it was someone close to him? What if he was the source of that information and he was killed because Peter, a member of the Order and therefore someone who might have known Regulus told, would have turned him in to Voldemort.
Blood is blood and it sounds like Sirius had more pity or scorn for his brother’s choices than hate, almost like the boy wasn’t smart enough to resist the Black family forces. If his brother died trying to help Sirius there might have been a bit of guilt, enough so that he might have taken to heart the information that the spy was someone close to him. It wouldn’t be James and one gets the feeling Sirius didn’t take Peter all that seriously. That it would be Peter wouldn’t occur to him. Others have written that Sirius’s arrogance is shown in his absolute shock that Peter could outwit him; he was taken completely off guard.
He would think of Remus. A comment about his friends from his family would push his buttons about Remus first. James was pureblood, good family. Peter was simply not important enough. But Remus was a dark creature, a registered one by that point, and maybe something more to Sirius? Maybe Reg knew that, too?
Something happened between Remus and Sirius to make Sirius amenable to believing that Remus could be a spy. But Peter’s insinuations alone have never struck me as enough to make Sirius doubt Remus. Sirius wouldn’t take Peter that seriously. But Regulus? Esp. if then he died for the information he had passed? If Regulus’s information had been vague enough and things between Sirius and Remus not great at that point, that would make Sirius' belief more plausible.
But whatever it was, Remus had to know about it b/c he guesses, in fact he posits the notion “casually”, in PoA 273, that Sirius might have thought he was the spy so he’s been aware there were reasons Sirius might think so. Sirius was at least ambivalent b/c I think he switched to Peter not only because it was a brilliant bluff, PoA 271, but because he was no longer safe. There is no doubt he would have died for James and Lily, PoA 273, 275, so it must have been something else. If Sirius had any plausible belief that Remus was the spy, Sirius didn’t trust himself. “It used to be us. .. me and Remus. . . and James. . .” Id. 271. Also, in the Eng. ed., Remus says “I haven’t been Sirius’s friend for twelve years but I am now. . . .” 253. So they were “friends” right up to the events of October 31, 1981. Sirius would have died for any of his friends, but he could not choose between them- at least not between James and Remus.
1.Why did Snape hate James so much?
There is something more at work than what we’ve read so far. In PoA Remus explains that Snape has told Dumbledore that Remus is not to be trusted: “He has his reasons. . . . you see, Sirius here played a trick on him which nearly killed him, a trick which involved me-“ p. 261. “We were in the same year, you know, and we- er- didn’t like each other very much. He especially disliked James. Jealous I think, of James’s talent on the Quidditch pitch-. . ..” (emphasis added).
And in OotP:
“Look, Harry,” said Sirius placatingly, “James and Snape hated each other from the moment they set eyes on each other, it was just one of those things, you can understand that can’t you? I think James was everything Snape wanted to be- he was popular, he was good at Quidditch, good at pretty much everything. And Snape was just this little oddball who was up to his eyes in the Dark Arts and James- whatever else he may have appeared to you, Harry- always hated the Dark Arts.” Am ed. 670 (emph added)
. . . “Even Snape?” said Harry.
“Well,” said Lupin slowly, “Snape was a special case. I mean, he never lost an opportunity to curse James, so you couldn’t really expect James to that that lying down, could you?” 671 (emph added).
Sirius was as much if not more arrogant than James in school. James was popular as well as bright and athletic. One has the sense not many people disliked him. Sirius, too, was brilliant [fn] and witty, but he was also manic, beautiful, arrogant and cruel. Sirius tried to kill Snape; James saved Snape’s life. So why did Snape hate James more? Why did he hate him from the moment he set eyes on him?
[fn] (I see Sirius as inherently brilliant and James as highly intelligent; Sirius was instinctive, James was logical and smart; Sirius was an artist, James was a tactician; James was a leader and probably a fair teacher, Sirius never lead anyone, never could be bothered to think of anyone else, but followed few, either)
I think James’ family had something to do with the down at the heels state of Snape’s family. Like maybe James’ father brought Snape’s father down, due to his association with the Dark Arts, perhaps Voldemort, and the two sons showed up at Hogwarts already knowing of each other and fighting their fathers’ fights. It’s why Snape can transfer his hatred to Harry so easily. It’s a family against family thing, and James saving Snape only deepened his sense of humiliation. Thoughts?
2. Many have presumed I think, that Snape was the person who informed Dumbledore that Voldemort had a spy in the Order. It would have made sense as a trial for Snape to bring Dumbledore a piece of real information (in this case tied to the prophesy that few knew about) as his first test after purportedly returning from the Dark Side. But Order members knew there was a spy and Peter was an Order member. If he’d known Snape had turned, Snape would have been killed.
What about if it was Regulus that brought the news?
Regulus died “some fifteen years” before Ootp began , or about the time Harry was born, shortly after the prophesy had been made. Ootp, 112, 839-840.
Sirius doesn’t seem to hate Regulus; he refers to him as a “stupid idiot. . . .he joined the Death Eaters.” Sirius was constantly reminded Regulus was the better son by his parents, not by Regulus. “I bet my parents thought Regulus was right little hero for joining up at first.”
But “he was killed by Voldemort. Or on Voldemort's orders, more likely. I doubt Regulus was ever important enough to be killed by Voldemort in person. From what I found out after he died, he got in so far, then panicked about what he was being asked to do and tried to back out. Well, you don’t just hand in your resignation of Voldemort. It’s a lifetime of service or death.”
What if Regulus tried to get a message to Sirius that the Potters were marked. What if Regulus was the source of the information that there was a spy in the Order, and had implied, directly or indirectly, to Sirius that it was someone close to him? What if he was the source of that information and he was killed because Peter, a member of the Order and therefore someone who might have known Regulus told, would have turned him in to Voldemort.
Blood is blood and it sounds like Sirius had more pity or scorn for his brother’s choices than hate, almost like the boy wasn’t smart enough to resist the Black family forces. If his brother died trying to help Sirius there might have been a bit of guilt, enough so that he might have taken to heart the information that the spy was someone close to him. It wouldn’t be James and one gets the feeling Sirius didn’t take Peter all that seriously. That it would be Peter wouldn’t occur to him. Others have written that Sirius’s arrogance is shown in his absolute shock that Peter could outwit him; he was taken completely off guard.
He would think of Remus. A comment about his friends from his family would push his buttons about Remus first. James was pureblood, good family. Peter was simply not important enough. But Remus was a dark creature, a registered one by that point, and maybe something more to Sirius? Maybe Reg knew that, too?
Something happened between Remus and Sirius to make Sirius amenable to believing that Remus could be a spy. But Peter’s insinuations alone have never struck me as enough to make Sirius doubt Remus. Sirius wouldn’t take Peter that seriously. But Regulus? Esp. if then he died for the information he had passed? If Regulus’s information had been vague enough and things between Sirius and Remus not great at that point, that would make Sirius' belief more plausible.
But whatever it was, Remus had to know about it b/c he guesses, in fact he posits the notion “casually”, in PoA 273, that Sirius might have thought he was the spy so he’s been aware there were reasons Sirius might think so. Sirius was at least ambivalent b/c I think he switched to Peter not only because it was a brilliant bluff, PoA 271, but because he was no longer safe. There is no doubt he would have died for James and Lily, PoA 273, 275, so it must have been something else. If Sirius had any plausible belief that Remus was the spy, Sirius didn’t trust himself. “It used to be us. .. me and Remus. . . and James. . .” Id. 271. Also, in the Eng. ed., Remus says “I haven’t been Sirius’s friend for twelve years but I am now. . . .” 253. So they were “friends” right up to the events of October 31, 1981. Sirius would have died for any of his friends, but he could not choose between them- at least not between James and Remus.