SPN Ep Rxn 8.01: The Spiral of Doom

[rokhal]

I used to do pretty much frame-by-frame reviews, with speculation and a detailed plot synopsis and a list of important technical and creature details. This is not one of those reviews.

Comments

[honeylocusttree]

I was watching this ep with quickreaver and when we got to the part about Sam giving up, I actually said, 'Well they're not actually good people.' I mean that's debatable but I think there's a lot of grey area for both of them in terms of how we generally define 'good' and 'bad.' They could just as easily go both ways. I don't think Sam made his particular choices out of being evil, or whatever, but I do think people forget sometimes all the really awful stuff both of them have done, and how that might have changed their ability to cleave to what the average person might generally consider morally 'right', or whatever.

I don't actually mind your interpretation of Sam here. It certainly falls within the realm of possibility, especially when it's not necessary to hold him up as a paragon of goodness and virtue. Or even someone who's moved by the emotional commitments and needs of his past.

I will now commence thinking of Sam in this way and seeing how, or if, it changes the way he reads in some of the past episodes. I like it. It's

[rokhal]

Damn my protagonist-centered morality!

But seriously, that's a good point about the gray areas. Off the top of my head, Sam's the one who racks up the "what the hell, hero?" moments and Dean's the one with all the "whoa . . . harsh, man" moments, but we can't blame everything either of them do wrong on circumstances and having a bad day. I don't think acknowledging their bad behavior diminishes one's ability to enjoy the show and appreciate the characters, though. Fans who overlook that are missing out, both on character development and on a deeper understanding of their own moral codes.

Have fun with the new Sam theory!

[galwithglasses]

This time, I think Sam really is soft, and Dean is hardcore, in ways they could only pretend to be eight seasons ago.

Great observation. I'm holding out hope that Sam learned something from messing up and grew up a little. He doesn't have a great track record though...

[rokhal]

Sam keeps trying to grow up, but I don't get the impression he ever has much success. I don't know. At least he didn't go Darth Vader again; he learned that much. I admit it's hard to justify saying "No, bad Sam, work yourself to the bone and wallow alone in misery!" But I'm still thinking it.

And what do you know, sitting around all year nursing his dog back to health worked; the world is pretty much the same as ever and Dean is back anyway! ;)

[khakigrrl]

I admit it's hard to justify saying "No, bad Sam, work yourself to the bone and wallow alone in misery!" But I'm still thinking it.

LOL! You just reminded me of that soulless!Sam and Dean exchange from "Clap Your Hands if You Believe" that I love so much:

Sam - "What about when there are no more leads for that? I mean are you just supposed to sit there in the dark and suffer, even when there's nothing that can be done at that moment?"
Dean - "Yes! You sit in the dark and you feel the loss."
Sam - "Absolutely, but couldn't I just do all that and have sex with the hippie chick?"
Dean: "No!"
Sam: "It would be in the dark."

[rokhal]

Great point. My impression is that Sam used to think he was the nice one, even when he was blundering around doing exactly what you describe. It was very annoying.

The doubt, regret, and low-self esteem Sam develops in later seasons really makes him more palatable (mostly because it's justified. And the sad eyes). And he does care about Dean; he's just often kind of terrible at it. He's possessive more than he is considerate.

I guess there's all different of shades of interpretation that fit Sam.

[rokhal]

It wouldn't be Sam if he wasn't doing something really . . . really . . . stupid, every season or so. Keeps things interesting.

But I do admire the effort Sam puts into fixing his mistakes. It takes a lot of courage to admit when one's done wrong.

Have fun with your popcorn!

[manzanita_crow]

Just come here from Caranfindel's new story, Stapled Shut, cos I like your fic and was looking for more. But now I'm gonna have to have a bit of a rant, sorry :D

[rokhal]

When Sam is not casually tossing gum wrappers on the floor of Dean's new bedroom, he is absurdly selfless, and inventive, and slightly crazy--back in Season 3 Dean had to convince Sam not to turn him into a Re-Animator zombie in a desperate bid to save him from Hell.

I have to agree with you about John, but I can kind of see his reasons for how he failed to raise his kids, and his communication style reminds me of me. Guess that makes me a bad person, too?

But before Season 8, Sam set a high bar for himself. He broke off from his crazy life and went to college (that takes conviction.) He poisoned himself with demon blood in a futile attempt to make up for his failure in Season 3 and save the world (it was the only plan on the table that actually made sense, never mind that it was all a scam.) He took the Swan Dive with Lucifer. Sam had us all expecting something bigger from him in the season 7-8 hiatus, because in the past when he's been left alone he tended to deal with it by being all dark and driven and effective.Sam holing up

[manzanita_crow]

I don't think anyone would deny both of our boys are fruit loops :D