Apparitions

[rochvelleth]

Apparitions (first episode last night, BBC1, 9pm) was very good, I thought. It's a supernatural drama starring Martin Shaw, who plays a Catholic priest who ends up doing exorcisms. I realise that makes it sound corny, but I thought it was nicely done - the assumed reality of demons to propel the plot didn't seem problematic at all to me (why should

Comments

[ex_robhu]

I have doubts about 'sacred texts' like the Bible
What doubts?

I've felt my belief in the reliability of the transmission of the texts enormously strengthened after attending to Tyndale House lectures on The Other Gospels and The New Testament Documents: Are they reliable? by BruceAs it happens - I think all mainstream Christians would agree with you that God embraces rather than condemns homosexual people. God embraces all people no matter what sins they commit (whether one thinks homosexual acts are sinful or not). That doesn't mean that God condones those acts though. I think it's also worth noting that no mainstream church considers homosexual orientation or inclination to be sinful itself, it's homosexual acts that are generally thought to be sinful. This is very important because it's not our inclination to do things that makes them OK or not, it's whether they fit in to how God intends us to act - consider sex before marriage for instance, I would very much love to have sex before marriage but that I'm inclined to do so and

[rochvelleth]

I was just wondering why that mit of Matthew looked so immediately familiar, and then I realised it was one of the bits I read in Armenian a few months ago :)

What doubts?

Well, I think my doubts fall into two three categories (though I'm making this up as I go along!):

1) Doubts about the reporting of what Jesus said (are these really the proclamations of the son of God, or do they just belong to a tradition of writing?).
2) Doubts about the OT basis of lots of stuff, especially bits that are supposed to have been written by e.g. Moses (which includes the commandments, of course!), because that all seems a bit like those Greek texts where they say 'the Muse came and told me all this, man!'

I think.

HomosexualityThe thing about Christian teaching and sin, I think, is that if you do the sin then you're supposed to repent if you want to be close to God again. Not repenting about your sin kinda puts you further from God, doesn't it? Do you think it does? It seems to be a common way of expressing what sin means (i.e. in terms of

[ex_robhu]

1) Doubts about the reporting of what Jesus said (are these really the proclamations of the son of God, or do they just belong to a tradition of writing?).
What do you mean exactly?

Is it necessary for them to be verbatim quotations (to take today's standard) for them to be 'God's words' ?

I would have thought they'd meet the standards people of the day thought were necessary for transmission of things people said. I get the strong impression from the non-gospel sources and the things I've read about the early church that the apostles really did think that Jesus said those things (and in fact many of them were martyred for those beliefs).

2) Doubts about the OT basis of lots of stuff, especially bits that are supposed to have been written by e.g. Moses (which includes the commandments, of course!), because that all seems a bit like those Greek texts where they say 'the Muse came and told me all this, man!'
I don't know anything about the Greek text you mention, so I can't comment on that. What do you doubt about the OT, and why?

[ex_robhu]

Personally, I think it comes from a social tradition that condemns homosexuality - and a social tradition just isn't the same as 'what God thinks'.It all goes back to the root of what the Bible is, and therefore what authority it has. If you think it's a collection of writings of what people thought in the past, and that God was not involved in it's creation then I think you're definitely right. The Bible claims a lot more of itself though - the OT claims to be an account of what God did and what he told His special group of people on earth, the people He wanted to be a beacon to the other nations. Yes, it contains things 'that happened' and that people believed, but it's actually pretty clear which things are commanded by God, and which are just the recorded history of sinful people. For example 'great' men in the Bible (like Solomon) had multiple wives, but that doesn't mean that God approves that, it just records that he did have many wives (and in fact God punishes him for this sinful behaviour

[megamole]

Yes, I enjoyed that. It was really scary in parts.

[megamole]

The Indian language, I believe, WAS Hindi, but spoken with a horrible English accent.

[megamole]

And the demons spoke Albanian.

[rochvelleth]

That's my wonderul random-language-recognising Mole! *nuggles*

Hmm, I wonder why the demons spoke Albanian...

[greengerbil]

I think - not too sure here - but I think it was because the demons were linked to (or interested in) Mother Teresa, who was born in Albania.
There were a couple of lines of dialogue somewhere in there which suggested that was the reason anyway!
Only thing I'm wondering... how did the Nasty Cardinal Man find out about Vimal's sexuality?
And - since you was brought up Catholic and might know *g* - I didn't think priests could 'act according to their conscience' after a superior had given them a ruling? Isn't there something about 'embracing the discipline of obedience'? Like Gerard Manley Hopkins being forbidden to write poetry... or has that changed now?
And... agree entirely re. the Biblical texts, btw. I remember studying their development in my archaeology studies at uni!

[fluffyarmadillo]

Did you watch Doctors today?
Apparently every Dr Who / Sci-Fi fan is gay ;)
There is a wide brush to tar the sci-fi lot with.

[rochvelleth]

Yes, I did! Hmm, and only a few months (IIRC) after we saw Doctors doing LARP :)

Yes, not quite fair, was it? But I did burst out laughing when Gordon assumed Heston was gay :)

Actually, this one was most remarkable to me because Max from Emmerdale was in it! Awwwww!