On Spartacus 3x08, and why it is my own damn fault.
Why did I decide it was a good idea to watch this show?
( Cut for almost entirely unspecific, but very unhappy rambling. )
( Cut for almost entirely unspecific, but very unhappy rambling. )
There is nothing wrong with being shallow like that, if you ask me. :-) I think it's about time television gave equal time to naked guys. And why not cover them in gold leaf while they're at it.
Lucretia was your favorite character, then? I loved her too - she was awesomely horrible. And I also really missed Batiatus, for the same reason. And I loved that these two rotten people were so honestly devoted to each other - they really were in love! Right to the end.
I knew everyone was going to die in the end (SDK will not alter the ending towards a positive outcome, I’m sure of it), but I didn’t care at first.
Yep. That sounds so familiar. So very, very familiar.
I'm so afraid of the last two episodes. I don't really want to watch them, but I'm afraid I'll have to, because I can't not at this point.
I do have some hope left... for one thing, after thinking it over for a while, I don't think Agron is dead yet. I've frequently thought people shown to receive injuries like his were dead, only to find out later that they weren't; Lucretia is just one example of this.
And more importantly, I think that if Agron were truly dead, he would have gotten a different send-off. The ep would have devoted a bit more time to him before he left with Crixus (I know there was a little, but I think it was a "to be continued" tease rather than a "farewell dear character"), and the death scene itself would have been more protracted and dramatic. Look at the Crixus death scene in comparison to Agron's fall. There's too much of a difference, IMO.
Okay, there is wishful thinking involved, too. :-) But in terms of plot, Agron's death isn't as interesting as if he's still alive. You can have the "omg he's dead" reactions from Nasir and the others, *and* still have him alive to add more tension to the last two eps.
And honestly: If this is the real death, with Agron taking off with a stupid line like that and Nasir being left behind in the company of Castus (?), plainly in the expectation that Nasir will be happy with Castus and Agron isn't necessary anymore - that has got to be the most unsatisfying kind of end to a relationship, ever. It would just be too horrible to contemplate. No. No, it would make much more sense to me if Agron were still alive, because then there'd be a chance to expand and build on what happened in relationship terms.
/rambling
Maybe not *everyone* will have to die in the end...? Can't some of them escape over the Alps...? *whimper*
(This is my "young Crixus in the baths" icon. Erm, okay, the closest approximation thereof. *g*)
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Lucretia and Batiatus were kick ass. I never thought I could like such rotten (perfect word for those two!!) characters that much! But I am glad to be rid of Ilithya and Glaber. They were meant to be hated and gods, did I hate them.
They did a good job on the “villains” of this season. Crassus and Ceasar are almost likeable, I even can understand their motivation. I was rather perplexed to what happened to Ceasar, didn’t see that one coming.
As for Tiberius. Haven’t we had at least one good-looking young and overachieving Roman who’s only purpose was to be cruel and unlikable and eventually die. Tiberius in this season, Seppius (who lusted after his sister) in the last, I didn’t, watch “Gods of the Arena, so I don’t know about that, but there is Numerius in season one (the one who force Spartacus to kill his Friend Varro).
And more importantly, I think that if Agron were truly dead, he would have gotten a different send-off.
Absolutely. I think, Agron had almost more screen time this season than Crixus and we definitely had more Agron/Nasir moments than Crixus/Naevia. So at some point Agron became more important than Crixus and therefore he will have a glorious death. Which will include Nasir in the scene, one of them will witness the death of the other, I’m sure of it. Also Agron and Nasir’s farewell were not “dramatic” enough. Didn’t seem like a final thing.
Other than that, a promo pic (or screen cap, I don’t know) shows a wounded and bandaged Agron standing next to Nasir, a scene we clearly haven’t seen yet. And there is a screen cap from a season trailer that shows Agron, Nasir and some others standing on a battlefield waiting for the battle to begin and as some tumbler user pointed out, we didn’t have that scene either. (I’m looking for the caps while typing but I can’t find them right now).
There are no signs that Nasir likes Castus more that on a friendly base, it's just Castus wishful thinking (and faulty logic), that there is more. Nasir is just polite. I think it’s interesting. Castus is a creeper and if Nasir were a woman, everyone would say how Castus constantly oversteps and harasses Nasir and we would call it sexual harassment.
Have you seen the trailer for next episode yet?
But you know, next episode is in two weeks.
Can't some of them escape over the Alps...? *whimper*
Sure, just nobody we care about.
Who do you like best?
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I think the show does a good job with almost all of the characters - there are very few whose motivations aren't understandable, and with the more important ones, you can almost always see why they don't think what they're doing is unjustified. And there's always moments that make them sympathetic... or almost, depending on how much they've done up to that point.
Tiberius, I think, it a less well motivated villain in that it's clear why he does what he does, but he goes too far overboard, too quickly. I think he would have been more effective if he'd started the downward slide somewhat less abruptly.
As for Crassus the Elder - no. Really don't like him at all. In my view, he is exactly like Tiberius, but smarter, more experienced, and thus better able to gauge what he can and can't get away with (beating up a senator = can be gotten away with, raping Caesar = uhm I think not a good idea kiddo), and how to cover his tracks.
I have heard tell of the promo pics, and while I don't know how much importance can be attached to them, I have taken hope from them, as well. :-)
Not that it won't be horrible if everyone dies later on. But... it would still be better than this, and maybe there is yet hope.
There are no signs that Nasir likes Castus more that on a friendly base
Well, to be honest I do think Nasir enjoys the flirting. I don't think he'd necessarily go further, but this is also a part of freedom - he can flirt! He is free to decide whether or not he wants to do anything more! And he can also turn down the pirate himself if he wants. It's all up to him.
I think that, for Nasir, this is in itself an exciting situation. He could shut down the flirting easily enough if he truly wanted, but he never does, because he does enjoy it (and probably does also think the man is attractive).
No, I don't think he'd cheat on Agron, or that he even really wants to. But I do think he enjoys the attention, and the context, and that Agron's jealous "I command you!" reaction is entirely the wrong one. So entirely, in fact, that I was surprised Nasir didn't react far more negatively than he did.
As for Castus, I actually like him, and I don't think he's harassing Nasir. Sure, he's pretty forward, but Nasir never does try to shut him down, and I did get the impression that Nasir was not displeased.
Hard to say, though, because Agron was always angrily hovering. Maybe with him gone (though not dead!) Nasir will get the chance to speak up on the matter himself - at least that's what I hope!!
Have you seen the trailer for next episode yet?
But you know, next episode is in two weeks.
Yes! I was hoping to catch a glimpse of Agron. :-) And argh, I didn't know that, I thought it's be this week... but, yeah, Easter.
I love an astounding number of the characters, really. :-) I never thought I would, but they grew on me... Spartacus, Crixus, Onomeous, Naevia before S3, Mira in S2, Lucretia and Batiatus as characters though not people in S1 and S0, and of course Agron and Nasir! Especially Agron, I confess, which is unexpected for me.
(Sorry, I am the queen of editing today.)
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I think I "like" Crassus because he is smarter and thinks before he does something. I can kind of see why Tiberius does what he does, but you are right, it's too abruptly. Crassus is cruel, sure, but it’s kind of a measured cruelty, that has purpose to some extent. Tiberius is just random. I hate random (I know, I’m weird). I truly hope Tiberius will die in the next episode.
Heee, I just posted an entire new post because my reply to your first comment got out of hand. :-)
*off to read the new entry"
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Whether Kore killed herself, tried to kill Tiberius, told his father what Tiberius had done (which Tiberius would of course have denied) or run away - in any case, his father would have lost her.
Mission achieved. Actually a very good plan. Very cruel, but that's the point, and all but bound to be successful. So, good.
In the case of Caesar, the plan was far less well considered (and hit upon in the heat of the moment), but there was still a point: It was a simple show of force and dominance, putting Caesar in the subordinate position Tiberius wants him in. And in the immediate aftermath, it does work - or seems to, at least.
It is, in effect, the same thing Crassus does with the senator by beating him up and then telling him that he can't do a thing about it. Rape is, of course, more horrific a choice of weapon than fists. And Tiberius is an idiot for not realizing that he *can't* allow himself this show of force and temper and get away with it.
So, because I see the same kind of cruel, ruthless purpose behind Tiberius' actions as behind those of his father, for me the difference between them really is only that one has the intelligence and the experience to be better at what he does, and so also seems to have cleaner hands.
I truly hope Tiberius will die in the next episode.
Same here. Most definitely.
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Can't some of them escape over the Alps...? *whimper*
Sure, just nobody we care about.
I might want to eat my words.
I just read the Spartacus
Wikipedia article (of the real one, not the series) and found this sentence: Plutarch, Appian and Florus all claim that Spartacus died during the battle, however Appian also reports that his body was never found
There is hope for Spartacus???
And someone said somewhere on the internet that Agron and Nasir are not based on actual historic persons so there might be hope for them too?
Not for Gannicus and Castus though, according to Wikipedia, they had to die as well. Which I’m ok with, I never cared for Gannicus that much.
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I would like to think there is hope for Spartacus, but I don't see it because of the character. There is going to be slaughter in the final battle, followed by a massive amount of crucifications. Spartacus wouldn't *not* be there with his people. I just can't see it.
But yes, I was hoping for Agron and Nasir.
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Now you're just crushing all my hopes.
Just kidding. Never truly believed he would make it.
There is just nothing left for Spartacus worth living for. He only truly loved Sura. Cared for but did not love Mira and just fucks Laeta. I don't think he will ever love again.
Mira was one of those characters who went from meh to wow and the fact that Spartacus did not love her back made me sad.
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I agree, Spartacus will never be able to settle down quietly somewhere and just live and love. All that's left for him is fighting to liberate slaves and kill Romans.
Even though I think he is still capable of love - and probably even loved Mira - Sura, his love for her and her death are now bound up with so many things in Spartacus' life that they have assumed an importance nobody and nothing else will ever be able to match, even remotely. Loving Sura, being robed of a home, losing Sura, devoting his life to and fighting blood and nails to save her and see her again, hoping and fearing and praying all those months - only to see her again at last and have her die in his arms, to be betrayed horribly, to be spurred to rebellion... and so forth.
Loving Mira or anyone else - even if the love he had for Mira was actually every bit as stroing as that he originally held for Sura - can never match up.
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I didn't realize Castus was a historical character. Nice work, Agron, throwing Nasir at a guy who historically dies because it's supposedly safer!! Fucking barbarians from East of the Rhine. ;-)
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