curious pattern between the PsyKids; thoughts on Sam, the mytharc, and Jo.
ETA the Second that I've rewritten my original piece to eliminate direct comments from the person with whom I was originally discussing Jo. Other than that, my remarks and my opinions stand.
Y'all have been rocking my world with the discussions going on here. Thank you for giving me the chance to shape up my thoughts on these things.
Have y'all noticed that the PsyKids tend to skew each other's powers? Andy's mind control didn't work on Sam. Sam had that one-time surge of TK around Max. Sam's vision wasn't precognitive around Andy. Webber couldn't keep his hold on Tracy with Sam and Andy approaching. This doesn't strike me as accidental...just very, very subtle. How fun is that? I definitely dig this as a potential weirdo twist on things.
Or at least it will be in my fanfic, at any rate. :)
Next, thanks to my many patient friends, I'm slowly hammering out why I'm not buying Sam going all "OMG WE'RE GOING TO BE TOTALLY EVIL BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THE DEMON SAID!" to the extent that he has. Not until they give us a missing piece, at any rate. When we had the big reveal about "I have plans for you and the children like you" in DT, that was also mentioned right along with "You know Sam really is John's favorite, right?" Dude. The demon is evil. It was torturing them. Yes, there is undoubtedly just enough truth to what the demon said about Sam and the Psykids to be alarming, but that strikes me as more of a reason for Sam to file it under "Shades of Grey" the way he does so much else. I truly don't believe that Sam thinks for an instant that he's secretly John's favorite -- that was the demon trying to break down Dean that much more. Why wouldn't what the demon said to Sam fall into the same category of mindfuck via hammering on a potential vulnerability? I mean, obviously it hasn't for Sam and that's what I presently need -- the bit that sells me on why that conversation in those circumstances got to Sam the way that it did.
As for the mytharc, y'all, they had to introduce a confirmation that there's some non-pattern stuff going on. Why? Because of the way Jess died over non-infant Sam. They have to break down some of the established stuff in order for her death to make sense in a non-hand-waving kind of way. I think we've now got pieces in place that will eventually help make her death make sense and, very likely, let us know that the demon isn't playing a two-dimensional game of tic-tac-toe but instead has a multi-tiered game of chess going on. I have faith that a new pattern will begin to evolve that will make us go "...okay. I can buy that" at the very least. Given this show? I'll be surprised if we don't wind up squeeing our twisted little knickers right off, though.
An edit of my edit because it's just been that damned sort of day. Here's what's hopefully an adequately generic version of my original statement.
As far as Jo goes, the show doesn't give me the impression she's meant to be "Dean's soulmate." She might be meant to be "Dean's love interest" but, for me, there's a difference. Love interests come and go. In fact, on genre shows, love interests are frequently introduced in order to kill them off. I'm surprised more people aren't rooting for Dean and Jo to hook up because that's a virtual guarantee something will come up for them to never be around each other again.
As far as actual canon goes, all we've seen is that Jo is good at games and the make-believe version of hunting that she has in her head. She's competent around the bar in a way that I think makes Ellen proud, but Jo is obviously the most incredibly green and untried wee'un on the planet. What do we know about Jo so far?
1) She's a crack shot on a video game. What remains to be seen is how she handles having to kill something that isn't digitally rendered. The problem I sense? The anti-Jo folks are going to hate her no matter how she does. If she's competent, there'll be complaints that she stole the guys' thunder and adds nothing to the show. If she fucks up and/or winds up shaken because of a reality check, there'll be complaints that she's just in the way and adds nothing to the show. It's the whole guaranteed lose-lose situation that's frustrating me and others who don't really care one way or another about Jo.
2) As an aside spawned by the original exchange, there's some concern that Jo is already so much like Dean that we can only expect to see her show up with even more Dean-like skills. The original commenter made her remark in a moment of cheerfully getting her snark on, but I'm going to use that as an example of something I've seen done elsewhere in a real and sincere way: bitching about things Jo hasn't even done yet. People hate her just because of ideas they have about things she could do. I can't decide whether it's more ridiculous or frustrating, to be honest.
3) Jo brought up Led Zep when we all know Dean loves that band. I had to argue against this as strike for Jo because she mentioned Led Zep in a context that makes clear that a) liking Led Zep is pretty much a hunter stereotype and b) she's not particularly into them. If she had been hot and heavy into Dean's kind of music, that would have been a different story.
4) She landed that punch on Dean and (here, I will quote because I'm at a loss as to how to translate my reply without it) "makes him whine." This struck me as another tongue-in-cheek word choice and, very reasonably, the comment also noted that even Gordon and the table didn't seem to slow Dean as much as this punch did. My reply:
I went back and watched that scene after reading this. I don't see where he whined. He called for Sam to make Sam deal with the chick who hit him -- which, yes, I find just as funny as Dean replying "I think so" when Jo asked if he was scared as Ellen. Then he put ice on it, which I also find hilarious because he's the last person to need ice. He knows it. Sam knows it. We know it. That did not translate into whining for me.
(To clarify a bit more, for me, that was all about the humor found in what's actually a very consistent bit of Dean-characterization. When things go off-script? He pretty much goes blank. Also, my Dean is the kind of guy who would be taken aback by being punched by a young, tiny girl. If I'd written that scene, you damned well better believe that I'd make him yell for Sam to come deal with the Hitting Chick. But anyway.)
5) Dean wound up singing that craptacular REO Speedwagon song (my phrasing there, btw *g*) and, as was suggested, this is indicative that TPTB are setting us up for the Dean/Jo match as "soulmates." (Again, her tone was all about the easy-going snark.)
I'm right there with you on this, except for the soulmates bit. That was about her getting under his skin a little despite himself. To my eye, JA didn't play that as being delightfully, deleriously infatuated with Jo. Dean seemed faintly appalled in general and unimpressed with himself. I enjoyed seeing that little glimpse into Dean -- I'm back to my original argument that Jo's a way to have even more insight into his character. So far? I've been tickled by what I've seen of him in this context.
Anyway. Yes, she's probably going to be a short-term love interest. What's going to be hilarious is when Sam finally notices. She hasn't even registered on his radar so far. If Dean even had the slightest interest in her at this point, Sam would be tormenting the hell out of him. Personally, I find the image of Sam being able to tease Dean or, worse, being that mortifyingly supportive that brothers can be hysterical. Ditto Dean and Ellen having to address the matter of Jo in what has the potential to be the best ever come-to-Jesus conversation.
I'm sorry the character has so many folks so unhappy. I'm not entirely certain I understand how Jo and whether or not she's a good match for Dean will ultimately ruin everything that's enjoyable about the program, but (and here's where I'm gently teasing) I'm sure I'll have lists upon lists of those reasons provided once next week's ep airs. Cheers!
This next bit? Comes from a comment I made in a second thread.
Until I actually see how the storyline develops between the characters, I'm not worried about it. It'll happen or it won't, and either way I'll watch it then decide what I think about it. If she really is going to be a love interest? Fine. If enough complaints have been raised to for TPTB to have nuked that idea? Fine. That doesn't change the fact that, for the moment, I'm enjoying watching Dean handle this girl's crush on him in a way that strikes me as both cute and plausible. I'll react to Jo becoming Dean's love interest when it finally happens and not before.
So, yeah. There's me on SPN up 'til now. FWIW and all that jazz. Cheers!
ETA that I'll be happy to give credit to the lovely lady who gave me reason to think things through should I hear from her. I was given a head's up that my original reposting of our exchange could be misconstrued. I'm not into drama or setting anyone up to feel like a pinata, but these are points that I wanted to make and have noted in my own LJ. So. There you go. :)
Y'all have been rocking my world with the discussions going on here. Thank you for giving me the chance to shape up my thoughts on these things.
Have y'all noticed that the PsyKids tend to skew each other's powers? Andy's mind control didn't work on Sam. Sam had that one-time surge of TK around Max. Sam's vision wasn't precognitive around Andy. Webber couldn't keep his hold on Tracy with Sam and Andy approaching. This doesn't strike me as accidental...just very, very subtle. How fun is that? I definitely dig this as a potential weirdo twist on things.
Or at least it will be in my fanfic, at any rate. :)
Next, thanks to my many patient friends, I'm slowly hammering out why I'm not buying Sam going all "OMG WE'RE GOING TO BE TOTALLY EVIL BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THE DEMON SAID!" to the extent that he has. Not until they give us a missing piece, at any rate. When we had the big reveal about "I have plans for you and the children like you" in DT, that was also mentioned right along with "You know Sam really is John's favorite, right?" Dude. The demon is evil. It was torturing them. Yes, there is undoubtedly just enough truth to what the demon said about Sam and the Psykids to be alarming, but that strikes me as more of a reason for Sam to file it under "Shades of Grey" the way he does so much else. I truly don't believe that Sam thinks for an instant that he's secretly John's favorite -- that was the demon trying to break down Dean that much more. Why wouldn't what the demon said to Sam fall into the same category of mindfuck via hammering on a potential vulnerability? I mean, obviously it hasn't for Sam and that's what I presently need -- the bit that sells me on why that conversation in those circumstances got to Sam the way that it did.
As for the mytharc, y'all, they had to introduce a confirmation that there's some non-pattern stuff going on. Why? Because of the way Jess died over non-infant Sam. They have to break down some of the established stuff in order for her death to make sense in a non-hand-waving kind of way. I think we've now got pieces in place that will eventually help make her death make sense and, very likely, let us know that the demon isn't playing a two-dimensional game of tic-tac-toe but instead has a multi-tiered game of chess going on. I have faith that a new pattern will begin to evolve that will make us go "...okay. I can buy that" at the very least. Given this show? I'll be surprised if we don't wind up squeeing our twisted little knickers right off, though.
An edit of my edit because it's just been that damned sort of day. Here's what's hopefully an adequately generic version of my original statement.
As far as Jo goes, the show doesn't give me the impression she's meant to be "Dean's soulmate." She might be meant to be "Dean's love interest" but, for me, there's a difference. Love interests come and go. In fact, on genre shows, love interests are frequently introduced in order to kill them off. I'm surprised more people aren't rooting for Dean and Jo to hook up because that's a virtual guarantee something will come up for them to never be around each other again.
As far as actual canon goes, all we've seen is that Jo is good at games and the make-believe version of hunting that she has in her head. She's competent around the bar in a way that I think makes Ellen proud, but Jo is obviously the most incredibly green and untried wee'un on the planet. What do we know about Jo so far?
1) She's a crack shot on a video game. What remains to be seen is how she handles having to kill something that isn't digitally rendered. The problem I sense? The anti-Jo folks are going to hate her no matter how she does. If she's competent, there'll be complaints that she stole the guys' thunder and adds nothing to the show. If she fucks up and/or winds up shaken because of a reality check, there'll be complaints that she's just in the way and adds nothing to the show. It's the whole guaranteed lose-lose situation that's frustrating me and others who don't really care one way or another about Jo.
2) As an aside spawned by the original exchange, there's some concern that Jo is already so much like Dean that we can only expect to see her show up with even more Dean-like skills. The original commenter made her remark in a moment of cheerfully getting her snark on, but I'm going to use that as an example of something I've seen done elsewhere in a real and sincere way: bitching about things Jo hasn't even done yet. People hate her just because of ideas they have about things she could do. I can't decide whether it's more ridiculous or frustrating, to be honest.
3) Jo brought up Led Zep when we all know Dean loves that band. I had to argue against this as strike for Jo because she mentioned Led Zep in a context that makes clear that a) liking Led Zep is pretty much a hunter stereotype and b) she's not particularly into them. If she had been hot and heavy into Dean's kind of music, that would have been a different story.
4) She landed that punch on Dean and (here, I will quote because I'm at a loss as to how to translate my reply without it) "makes him whine." This struck me as another tongue-in-cheek word choice and, very reasonably, the comment also noted that even Gordon and the table didn't seem to slow Dean as much as this punch did. My reply:
I went back and watched that scene after reading this. I don't see where he whined. He called for Sam to make Sam deal with the chick who hit him -- which, yes, I find just as funny as Dean replying "I think so" when Jo asked if he was scared as Ellen. Then he put ice on it, which I also find hilarious because he's the last person to need ice. He knows it. Sam knows it. We know it. That did not translate into whining for me.
(To clarify a bit more, for me, that was all about the humor found in what's actually a very consistent bit of Dean-characterization. When things go off-script? He pretty much goes blank. Also, my Dean is the kind of guy who would be taken aback by being punched by a young, tiny girl. If I'd written that scene, you damned well better believe that I'd make him yell for Sam to come deal with the Hitting Chick. But anyway.)
5) Dean wound up singing that craptacular REO Speedwagon song (my phrasing there, btw *g*) and, as was suggested, this is indicative that TPTB are setting us up for the Dean/Jo match as "soulmates." (Again, her tone was all about the easy-going snark.)
I'm right there with you on this, except for the soulmates bit. That was about her getting under his skin a little despite himself. To my eye, JA didn't play that as being delightfully, deleriously infatuated with Jo. Dean seemed faintly appalled in general and unimpressed with himself. I enjoyed seeing that little glimpse into Dean -- I'm back to my original argument that Jo's a way to have even more insight into his character. So far? I've been tickled by what I've seen of him in this context.
Anyway. Yes, she's probably going to be a short-term love interest. What's going to be hilarious is when Sam finally notices. She hasn't even registered on his radar so far. If Dean even had the slightest interest in her at this point, Sam would be tormenting the hell out of him. Personally, I find the image of Sam being able to tease Dean or, worse, being that mortifyingly supportive that brothers can be hysterical. Ditto Dean and Ellen having to address the matter of Jo in what has the potential to be the best ever come-to-Jesus conversation.
I'm sorry the character has so many folks so unhappy. I'm not entirely certain I understand how Jo and whether or not she's a good match for Dean will ultimately ruin everything that's enjoyable about the program, but (and here's where I'm gently teasing) I'm sure I'll have lists upon lists of those reasons provided once next week's ep airs. Cheers!
This next bit? Comes from a comment I made in a second thread.
Until I actually see how the storyline develops between the characters, I'm not worried about it. It'll happen or it won't, and either way I'll watch it then decide what I think about it. If she really is going to be a love interest? Fine. If enough complaints have been raised to for TPTB to have nuked that idea? Fine. That doesn't change the fact that, for the moment, I'm enjoying watching Dean handle this girl's crush on him in a way that strikes me as both cute and plausible. I'll react to Jo becoming Dean's love interest when it finally happens and not before.
So, yeah. There's me on SPN up 'til now. FWIW and all that jazz. Cheers!
ETA that I'll be happy to give credit to the lovely lady who gave me reason to think things through should I hear from her. I was given a head's up that my original reposting of our exchange could be misconstrued. I'm not into drama or setting anyone up to feel like a pinata, but these are points that I wanted to make and have noted in my own LJ. So. There you go. :)