Devil's Advocate

Sep 24, 2008 10:41

Somebody's gotta do it. When Catholic church bigwigs get together to discuss making someone a saint, one of the cardinals must take the negative side and present the best argument against him or her. This is where the term "devil's advocate" comes from ( Read more... )

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Comments 20

compudoc September 24 2008, 15:14:31 UTC
I can see your side of it, catullus, but there must be something "bubbling under the surface" for the Sox to be retiring Johnny Pesky's number. Hopefully, we will find out what it may be.

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thirdbase September 24 2008, 15:37:10 UTC
perhaps the desire to have Johnny see it retired? Which, of course leads us to What's Wrong With Johnny?

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museology September 24 2008, 16:03:14 UTC
He's 88 years old, that's what. Statistically, he won't be here for too many years.

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thirdbase September 24 2008, 16:11:23 UTC
And odds are better they're not trying to restructure the rules to retire Clemens....

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adalberg September 24 2008, 16:33:45 UTC
And while some may not like the 10 years requirement, it serves a purpose. What's next, are we going to retire Pedro, Schilling, Ortiz when he retires? I don't like that Pesky's number is being retired because I think it cheapens the other numbers.

At the same time, I'm happy for the guy. I'm sure this will mean the world to him and he's such a nice guy.

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groovinmahoovin September 24 2008, 18:27:12 UTC
The only reason Pesky didn't have 10 years of service with the Sox was because he was serving his country in WWII. If WWII didn't intervene he'd have 10 years and part of an 11th.

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adalberg September 24 2008, 21:46:42 UTC
That, AND the Red Sox dealt him to the Tigers because he wasn't any good.

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akatonbo September 24 2008, 23:25:36 UTC
Pesky's got a lifetime commitment to the Sox and more than 10 years of service in traditional employment by the team, it just wasn't all as a player ( ... )

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frawst September 24 2008, 16:48:47 UTC
15 as a mascot.

He was a player, manager, announcer, coach, instructor and assistant to the GM, and then elder statesman roving coach before he moved to being bench coach.

The Trio has done a good job of breaking negative ties to the past, but it is just as important for a team with as much history as the Yankees, Dodgers, or Cardinals to celebrate the positive aspects of that history when they can.

Johnny is a direct link to the Golden Heart of Red Sox history in his relationship with Ted, Bobby, and Dom. Lets celebrate that while he's here.

[great idea for a post by the way]

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steaksammich September 24 2008, 17:26:41 UTC
I'm glad that they're relaxing the guidelines for retiring a number, I'm just surprised they're doing it for Pesky and not Rice.

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cranbonite September 24 2008, 22:10:16 UTC
Is the general impression about Rice that they are hoping he will (finally!) get into the HoF this year, so they'll get to his once that's happened?

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misterthebull September 24 2008, 22:14:03 UTC
Wouldn't that just be amazing...

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groovinmahoovin September 24 2008, 18:24:52 UTC
Pesky was a beast his first 2 years with the Sox, missed 3 years in there due to the war, and was still solidly above average in his 5 remaining years. His WARP3 by season:

1942 11.2
1946 11.6
1947 7.0
1948 5.6
1949 7.2
1950 6.5
1951 5.6
1952 -0.7

If we conservatively give him 8 wins above replacement for each year from 1943-1945, that's 78.7 wins above replacement, which while not HOF caliber, is still an excellent career when taken in conjunction with 50 years of service to the club. By comparison, there are tons of people who think Jim Rice should be in the HOF, let alone have his number retired, and his career WARP3 is 80.5, so Pesky is basically Rice plus 50 years of service.

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groovinmahoovin September 24 2008, 18:39:29 UTC
And by comparison, Joe Cronin was only worth about 53 wins above replacement in his time with the Sox, since his peak was with the Senators, and Fisk was only worth about 56 since he played half his career with the White Sox, so as a player, Pesky was more valuable than those guys after the appropriate adjustments are made for wartime service. After Williams, Clemens, Yaz, Doerr, Dewey, and Boggs, unless I forgot somebody, Pesky and Rice are essentially tied for 7th for most valuable Red Sox players, and I don't think it at all cheapens the honor to retire the number of the 7th best player in your history when his service to the team spans almost 6 decades.

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arrowintwolakes September 24 2008, 21:08:35 UTC
I still say he held the ball too long! (Kindly ignore that I was born in 1982)

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