Poll Time! What's it all about, Buffy? redux

[rebcake]

Perhaps I'm beating a dead horse, but here goes.

I was fascinated by the huge differences in how people perceive the way Buffy and Spike start their "relationship". I'm trying to find the crux of the divergence, and here is one possibility that came to mind:

Poll I give up! (The Buffy Edition)
Yes, yes, we know it was a combination of factors. But which was the primary motivator for

Comments

[shapinglight]

That was trickier than you might think. I do think Buffy's primary motivation was giving in to her own desires, but I don't think those desires were specifically for Spike, or to do with just sex, if you see what I mean. He was a means to an end - the most immediate way to make herself feel again. It helped that she didn't have any real respect for him left so using him to make herself feel better didn't give her the moral qualms doing the same to a human would have

[beer_good_foamy]

That was trickier than you might think. I do think Buffy's primary motivation was giving in to her own desires, but I don't think those desires were specifically for Spike, or to do with just sex, if you see what I mean. He was a means to an end - the most immediate way to make herself feel again. It helped that she didn't have any real respect for him left so using him to make herself feel better didn't give her the moral qualms doing the same to a human would have.

I came here to post pretty much exactly this.

[aycheb]

Me three although I did pick neither.

Buffy's still harbouring a death wish in Gone. Launching herself at Spike isn't so different from launching herself from Sweet's stage. She still wants to burn. Spike won't give her the big death so she'll take the little one. That and she needs him to stop talking, she needs to shut him up. There I do think there's something that could be framed as his pressurising her although I think that misses the point. But if Spike had backed off and more particularly hadn't thrown the whole "you came back wrong" thing in her face again and again she might have been able to return to the numb but semi-functioning state she was able to maintain before Sweet forced that confession. Or to direct her fury at the people she really needed to feel it. As it was that catharsis was denied her until Normal Again.

[kikimay]

Like the others above. ù_ù

[fenderlove]

I voted for her own desire, but I've never really understood this scene. I don't think I ever will.

[rebcake]

That's pretty much how I feel about The Gift. Also, any discussion whatever about "the soul" in the Whedonverse. (I just don't think there's enough to go on to make any firm statement about what it is/does.)

This scene, though? I am ALL OVER THIS SCENE! Epic train wreck!

[fenderlove]

I think this scene always made me feel ooky and uncomfortable. I think I am left with almost as many questions about it as I am with discussions of the soul or how the BtVS Universe was created according to their own canon. One thing that bothers me is that Buffy took a huge leap of faith that Spike was "ready" enough for her to hop on his disco stick. I mean, what if he wasn't ready? She'd have been pretty disappointed! Also, why does Spike's zipper sound like a sleeping bag zipper and not an actual zipper on clothing? What were Spike's thoughts about being manhandled out of his clothing (he seemed confused, judging by his expression)? How did Spike not get right-angled when they fell through the floor? Seriously, guys have fallen onto shoes from a bed-height and broken their members with less force than Spike had as he went through the floor.

[boot_the_grime]

Vampire strength. :)

That's also the answer to every "how could she/he do this or that during this scene". Slayer/vampire strength. Don't try it at home. :)

[gillo]

It's her own desire, but not to have sex. It's all about his unique ability to make her "feel" something - he's the fire that doesn't freeze her, that's all. She wants to feel something beyond her depression, and sex and pain are so closely linked that one feeds into the other.

So her primary motivation is about getting some - contact with the world beyond the grey cotton-wool that surrounds her in her depression.

[boot_the_grime]

It's her own desire, but not to have sex. It's all about his unique ability to make her "feel" something - he's the fire that doesn't freeze her, that's all. She wants to feel something beyond her depression, and sex and pain are so closely linked that one feeds into the other.

Spike: I wasn't planning on hurting you... much. (smirks)
Buffy: You haven't come close to hurting me!
Spike : Afraid you're gonna give me a chance? Afraid I'm gonna...

Buffy plans a kiss on his lips.

[ms_scarletibis]

I don't think it had to do with anything Spike wanted. I don't think he thought it would go anywhere beyond making out so soon.

*see Spike's look of utter surprise when Buffy hops on here*

<--doesn't actually have a screencap of that.

Anyway, I think that scene would have happened eventually, but the process was sped up by her thinking she had the scapegoat of coming back "wrong," which is kind of odd, since she doesn't say "the hell with it" to anything else in her life. Flimsy excuse is flimsy, so it circles all back to her giving in to her own desires, IMO.

Not that I blame her for riding the Spike train, cause duh :p

[rebcake]

I'm surprised at how many people think Buffy's desires don't include sex. There's lots of evidence that she enjoys (enjoyed?) it, and it's hard for me to wrap my head around her NOT missing that part of her life. (I tend to over-identify with her. ;P) I don't know if I'd say it's her number one issue at the moment, but I figure it's somewhere in the mix.

[ms_scarletibis]

Oh, very much agreed.

Abstinence and sexual frustration and then BAM! Or is it "BOOM!"?

[red_satin_doll]

Very much agree as well. Sexual desire is "somewhere in the mix" as you say - that mix being her depression and self-loathing. (She hasn't had a lover since Riley left.) He's fought at her side, defended Dawn, etc - I believe that trust and respect had built up by the end of S5 (despite the Buffybot thing, which she seemed to forgive him for. Buffy is very compassionate in her way, and I don't think gets much credit for that.)

Had she not been depressed, had he not been a soulless vampire, had they not both been longing for connection - well, then that would have been a different show altogether, so never mind that.

[rebcake]

I'm pretty sure that she was giving in to lots of things: anger, lust, a desire NOT to have to be "good" all the time, etc. Want, take, have...

[rebcake]

For as much as I love this season, I've written almost nothing set in it. I tend toward a lighter tone, and it's tricky to find the right place for that during this time. Plus, more talented writers than I have mined this puppy like a boss, bless 'em.