Poll Time! What's it all about, Buffy? redux
Perhaps I'm beating a dead horse, but here goes.
I was fascinated by the huge differences in how people perceive the way Buffy and Spike start their "relationship". I'm trying to find the crux of the divergence, and here is one possibility that came to mind:
Poll I give up! (The Buffy Edition)
Yes, yes, we know it was a combination of factors. But which was the primary motivator for ( Read more... )
I was fascinated by the huge differences in how people perceive the way Buffy and Spike start their "relationship". I'm trying to find the crux of the divergence, and here is one possibility that came to mind:
Poll I give up! (The Buffy Edition)
Yes, yes, we know it was a combination of factors. But which was the primary motivator for ( Read more... )
I don't think for one minute that she gave in to him pressurising her. If it had been just that - if she'd had no reason of her own to jump his bones - she never would have done it.
The above could well be interpreted as me thinking she's an awful person and Spike's a poor woobie, but I don't think that at all. Maybe if he hadn't been so bloody obnoxious to her earlier in the episode she would never have jumped him. She lost sight of him as a person due to the way he behaved, which made it easier for her to do what she did. Also, I think it must have struck her on some level as early as this how little he really 'got' what she was going through.
Enh! In other words, it was the Sunnydale town motto: it's complicated, and maybe I should have picked 'neither'.
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I came here to post pretty much exactly this.
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Buffy's still harbouring a death wish in Gone. Launching herself at Spike isn't so different from launching herself from Sweet's stage. She still wants to burn. Spike won't give her the big death so she'll take the little one. That and she needs him to stop talking, she needs to shut him up. There I do think there's something that could be framed as his pressurising her although I think that misses the point. But if Spike had backed off and more particularly hadn't thrown the whole "you came back wrong" thing in her face again and again she might have been able to return to the numb but semi-functioning state she was able to maintain before Sweet forced that confession. Or to direct her fury at the people she really needed to feel it. As it was that catharsis was denied her until Normal Again.
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1. something more than that crummy fat-free yogurt (stop denying herself pleasures)
2. to lash out (even at the wrong person)
3. a bit of peace (that little death)
4. a challenge (though perhaps that's more Spike's thing)
5. to feel
6. to stop feeling
7. great muppety Odin, the sex
And, there's probably a hundred more things that she wants and doesn't want all at the same time.
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What I mean to say is that I agree to what everybody has posted above.
I've wondered - would Buffy have any idea who the heck Odin is? (I don't think she's stupid by any means, it just doesn't sound very - Buffy to me. Almost more Willow-ish, in a way.)
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I don't know why not. The line is a Buffy quote from the comics, but does seem more Xandery than Buffy-y, on its face. My head canon is that she secretly is well-versed in hero mythology. She doesn't want to let on, but it slips out occasionally. ;-)
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I'd add that finding out that he can defend himself against her physically also made it easier for her to go for it. That could be another factor in the "she's NOT just an awful person" argument. In a way, that would indicate that she does have a sort of respect for him (a warrior's respect for a worthy adversary/ally), even if she's not respecting him emotionally.
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I also don't think she for one moment thought he would try to kill her. I don't think she thought that in Smashed even when they were fighting, which is weird, but then again, despite the lack of respect, she had definitely come to trust him in a way, which of course is why the AR took her so by surprise.
I do think the fact that his strength rivalled hers was possibly a turn-on, but if not, at least a relief. She couldn't damage him. He could give her what she felt she needed.
And maybe I should leave this now. I'm going to tie myself in knots if I'm not careful and say something that comes across all wrong.
I-it's complicated.
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Agreed. I'm sure that she was turned on and relieved by his ability to engage in "the dance".
What I meant by "respect", is that she is confident in his ability to more or less match her, physically. It's hard for me to imagine Buffy engaging in rough sex with someone who is getting electroshock when he partakes. I'm sure there is fanfic to that effect, but I just don't think she'd go there. Of course, we'll never know if she would, as that wasn't the situation presented, but I don't think her "dark place" was quite that dark.
But, yes, complicated about covers it. ;-)
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Because despite what Spike says in FFL about a 'death wish' I think he misunderstands it; it's not about literal death, but about a longing to lay down arms, to not be "the only girl in the world"; a longing for respite. And in Buffy's case you have PTSD and clinical depression on top of that, so there's a complex stew of motivations. (I'm dealing with depression myself - the real sort, not the "temporarily sad and blue" type - and so S6 is the season that I identify with most and gets under my skin more profoundly than any other season.)
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http://fantas-magoria.livejournal.com/335454.html
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