N's versus S's...

[veneti]

Ok, I wanted to get across a concept that I have about NT versus the S so I need to put this up as a separate post ;)

I'm an INTJ with an IQ measured around 135-145 so forgive my absolute analysis, pondering....  Arrogance, conceit and anything else...

Anyway,  I believe there is 2 types of N (Across a normal distribution curve probably) and that

Comments

[veneti]

Ok, a poster on another thread explained the difference between an N and a S

[jeroentiggelman]

Another N simply understands what the objective is

Whose objective? The original S request was simply for the time! If there is a problem here it would seem to be not being able (or caring) to understand someone else's point of view!

[veneti]

This is an open analogy...

I could say why doesn't the S know the time? Time might be important to the S as a drone on the production line but not as the leader delivering the proposal/objective.

[night_princess]

Why doesn't the N already know what the S wants

[saeble]

you forget the influence of the P/J thing

Impulsive P types, coupled with the NT (NTP) = way faster than NTJ, they don't have to analyse and prove a truth before using it to best advantage. Granted its often rough and sometimes, fails at first attempt, but... in this world, it's the quick and the dead.

Doing it first is often what grants ownership of the new thing, certainly thats the case with patent law.

[veneti]

I'm not high on the J scale. I know that things need to be reasonably "anarchic" to be first.

I think the best is almost an xNTx type mix with a high IQ and strong drive.

As for IP.... ;) Thats the ultimate spear for the smart hunter NT. It brings down the mammoths...

[saeble]

..but it needs to be bloody sharp, extremely well balanced and strike exactly where it needs to, to do the job...

An SJ Spearmaker following your design will probably make the best spear and you'll no doubt find the penultimate hunter in terms of actually throwing the sucker, will be an SP.

Whilst I'm first in line to bag the bad aspects of Sensors, I'm first to admit they have their place. They are not superior or inferior, their balances of strengths and weaknesses are just different to yours.

Oh... and for the record, I'm an ENTP.

[veneti]

Actually, I can do it myself on less technical work (more creative etc). However when it comes down to being an absolute expert and reaching into minute depth (say Oracle code) the the ST's etc come into their own.

For the record I'm moderate I and moderate J...

[wulfmadchen]

I often wonder if all of these NTs who talk about Ss as if they're all machines or hive-insects, incapable of being self-directed, assuming leadership roles, or producing original thought, actually know any Ss. That description sure doesn't sound like the ones that I know.

[saeble]

my 2c... the truly brain dead hive mind folks are the ones who stick out the most, to sometimes give the superficial impression 'S' folk are all just Johnny and Jane Punchclocks.

Put it this way, it only takes one self absorbed, opinionated and neophobic ESTJ to ruin your day. Yes.. I know your Dad is one, please don't presume to think I'm talking about all ESTJs. Nobody is immune to the occasional carpet bombing with tarbrushes.

[jeroentiggelman]

it only takes one self absorbed, opinionated and neophobic ESTJ to ruin your day.

I still would not necessarily expect huge misgeneralizations on account of such isolated detail facts from INTJs.

[saeble]

I got grumped at for saying unkind things about ESTJ's (for obvious reasons) and at one point, a hyper-qualification on my behalf perhaps, but I like my nuts where they are..:)

[quantumkitty]

I think there's some truth to part of what you're saying: yes, mature, well-differentiated functions which work well in combination with other functions will be more effective.

But the whole "we N types (or at least the smart ones) are so superior to those stupid S types" thing is just... nonsense, as wulfmadchen says. I wish people would get tired of it.

Of course, I don't think it will get old, because it's just the inverse of the biases that many mainstream groups hold (without spelling them out in terms of Type). It's understandable why this sentiment would be present in Type communities; but ultimately I think it's just a form of "I know you are, but what am I?"

And also, I don't see what your IQ has to do with this.

Robots vs. Aliens

[night_princess]

> I wish people would get tired of it.

People do, and people don't. Some people mature, grow up, and move on, often quietly without telling the group they've reached the other side, but other people are born and take their place. It happens on college campuses and Internet communities, living through the same cycles over and over again. When people grow up, they leave such communities and find one more appropriate to their stage of development. It's an interesting paradox that "fresh blood" means rehashing tired old conversations all over again.

I just read "Flying Blind", the latest installment in the Heroes comic. If you don't follow Heroes, the second layer might not come across (although there are hints of the other layer in the comic itself). I particularly like that comic.

Re: Robots vs. Aliens

[quantumkitty]

I meant people as a group; I'm aware that (some) individuals must mature past that.

It's an interesting paradox that "fresh blood" means rehashing tired old conversations all over again.

Yep, I've seen this phenomenon.

I just read "Flying Blind", the latest installment in the Heroes comic. If you don't follow Heroes, the second layer might not come across (although there are hints of the other layer in the comic itself). I particularly like that comic.

I don't follow Heroes, but I think that comic is neat. :)

Re: Robots vs. Aliens

[night_princess]

> I meant people as a groupI was hoping that throwing in "and people don't" would've conveyed that I understood that, but oh well. I meant that your wish just can't be accomplished with the current parameters on the group, so the wish wasn't really much of a wish because the solution is to change groups -- only I didn't mean it harshly like that, so I actively rephrased my thoughts into what I think was P-speak before typing it up in hopes of expressing that without the harsh-sounding tone that I didn't mean

[jeroentiggelman]

I'm an INTJ with an IQ measured around 135-145 so forgive my absolute analysis, pondering.... Arrogance, conceit and anything else...

If that were very relevant, we should be similar. I doubt this. BTW, I studied mathematics and computer science.

1) an N that is a function of continual conscious thought. Effectively the N is the subconscious T (It is like autosuggestion as you intuitively subconsciously know the answer e.g. it "feels" right.

To me, roughly, T = logical analysis, N = pattern, and to me a whole lot of analysis is not the same as perceiving a pattern. Most of my N responses would be very hard to underpin with a great amount of details.

Continual conscious thought.. Well, I do think there is value in training yourself to be aware of what is going on and try to see how things work at all times. I can see that familiarizing yourself with certain paths of reasoning helps you think quicker, etc. However, I see a qualitative difference between that and pattern-type conclusions.

2) The N that isn't primed with lots of T.

[veneti]

Me - I'm an INTJ with an IQ measured around 135-145 so forgive my absolute analysis, pondering.... Arrogance, conceit and anything else

[veneti]

Me - Think sphere and line and you'll understand

[bellisaurius]

ve -Think sphere and line and you'll understand

je - I think I see what you are thinking, but I think your comparisons are pretty random and not particularly meaningful.

This illustrates a problem I think us N's often have. Since a big chunk of what we do is pattern recognition, we often see patterns where they don't necessarily exist. That, combined with the fact we get answers quickly means we're wrong a lot.

Plus, like any intelligent human being, we fall in love with our ideas, and I think there's quite a bit of attachment since intuition works sort of below the surface, so it's hard to disprove it, and it sticks, so it;s hard to get out of the head.