[Unposted draft from Tumblr]
Missbamf’s first reply sums up pretty much everything why anti-AOS people should stop with their hating and just move on. Because, really, you haters have the right to complain and point out the wrongs in the movie (in every movie), but not at the expenses of our fun or to the point which you made us feel like idiots just because we accept a movie you don’t approve. And this is, sadly, what exactly you all are doing.
Some of us either get it that AOS is a FULL AU - so it has nothing to do with TOS but for the character names (and Spock prime) - or just don’t care to compare. We have the right to not be looked down just because of that.
Spock’s life changed since the first movie so what you call OOCness is actually THIS SPOCK, and it’s CANON Spock. We never seen TOS Spock do certain things because his life was different at the point of time when TOS happens. And... that Spock lived with that senior crew where all was older and more “seasoned”. In AOS all the people surrounding Spock act very different and even a Vulcan will be affected by the environment around him. He doesn’t act OOC, he acts like a Spock with dead planet, dead mother, brash captain, etc, acts. Quinto!Spock IS NOT Nimoy!Spock: the sooner you all understand it, the better.
AOS Jim Kirk had a very entire different life and he’s a dick, yes, but let’s not forget that the very head of Starfleet was a BIG dick and that could say something about how things work differently in this Starfleet. This Jim is allowed to have self-doubts and be a dick because he’s been put on a chair when he didn’t have the time to grow up. We all would fuck up if suddenly we were put in charge of something this big like captaining a ship with 1000 people, a ship that has a bad case of “be at a wrong time wrong place” btw.
This Jim had no way do develop and become the self-assured captain we all know from Shatner’s acting: Pine!Kirk is all but a guy who mostly does the cocky because it’s the only way he knows to go on and do this job (be a captain).
Who produced/written/directed AOS movie could have done better? Yes.
Do the movies suck? No.
Do the movies succeeded in what the Paramount wanted (make cash)? Yes.
J.J. Abrams was asked to make a movie about a dying fandom and make it (the fandom) all cool again. He made it. They had to gather a specific type of fan (the one who think Kirk is a womanizer, the one who doesn’t care about gay rights or women rights in their popcorn movie, the one who want a blockbuster full of explosions and actions) and the crew (Orci, J.J ecc) did it.
Cumby was a big name that would bring flocks of non-Star Trek fans into theaters (see Pine joking about all Japanese fans at the airport shouting Cumby’s name). Might be sad, but there’s not POC actors at the moment that can guarantee the same amount of fans.
And let’s not kid ourselves: if Gene Roddenberry had the amount of cash J.J. was given, in TOS we’d see more explosions and less society commentary. What do we see in the TOS movies that followed TMP?
The fact is: when you have to make a tv show and you are given money that’s barely enough to cover the actors salary and some costume, you have to make up for it by filling 40 minutes with a plot. Roddenberry just came at the right time and right place: today his TOS would be far different. He was a misogynist himself, never forget, so a today TOS would be a mix of Kirk banging the woman-of-the-day (gratuitous booby scene included) and PEW PEW PEW scenes.
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During the long discussion I guess you kind of forgot the original point, which is that we AOS fans (the ones who liked the movies, the ones who paid money to own them in bluray, who would buy merchandise from them and can’t wait for the next one), are FUCKING TIRED of this AOS bashing around and.
Sunfell up here was expressing her personal own opinion on the different ways Nimoy and Quinto acted, and what was the reply they got? A bunch of facepalm gifs that were clear to be read as a “see this stupid fan and the shit they’re saying”. When a personal opinion about a movie character have become a reason to be treated like a stupid?
Look, I’ll make an example. I’m a huge X-Men comics fans. My favorite character is Angel, the dude with the feather wings.
Some years ago they decided to do a movie called X-Men First Class, which didn’t include THE first class (Cyclops, Jean Grey, Beast, Angel, Iceman). Do you know how pissed off I am when I see post where people, when the name “Angel” is comes up, think about the fairy-winged girl (a character that in the comics was just secondary) because that’s the character used in First Class, instead of the guy who’s been around 40 years, who is a founding members of the X-Men and a core member of the series?
So, to say I don’t care about the new X-Men movies is an understatement. But you know what? I don’t go into the tags to wank about movies that people loved. I just stay out of the fandom, I let the others enjoy their X-Men Movie verse, and hold dear my comic books. I don’t feel the need to put down every single scene because of this and that.
I get the critique about Khan/Cumby, I get the lack of rank on the women uniforms, I get many things that are troubling for people but these very people don’t seem to get that there are others who just enjoy movies for what they are - a distraction, something to spend good two hours not thinking about the shit of world we’re living in.
I’ve seen AOS-haters complaining about Star Trek Beyond, a movie we haven’t seen a thing about yet! People complaining about Uhura (and Sophia/Gazelle) be left in a corner of the plot because we have yet to see Zoe in any of those set pics released/stolen so far. I mean, we NEVER SAW Pine in any set pic leaked when they were filming Into Darkness, and he surely was part of it.
I’ve seen people complaining about the look of the new uniforms when the uniforms now are more closer to the original timeline (a mix between TOS and TNG). This isn’t complaining about bad casting choices or plot holes, this is trying to find ANYTHING to put down a movie and it’s killing the fun. It’s tiring, freaking tiring, to see this on my dash everyday. I am in a point of my life when I mostly react to AOS bashing (or SJW ignorance post or anything) with a facepalm, but I’m 30 and had certain life experiences to grow my hard shell: there are other people out there who are made to feel bad for liking a movie just because the movie doesn’t have enough women and POC or don’t feature a transgender or a homosexual.
Let me be clear on this point: it’s not just AOS, or Star Trek. It happens in every fandom (people who was made to feel bad about liking/not-being-annoyed by Bruce/Natasha in Avengers). It has to stop. I don’t want to see another person who feels ashamed to like something because “it’s problematic”.
You feel AOS movies are problematic? Sure: you had all the time to shit on them when Into Darkness was released, now move on, enjoy your TOS and stop treating AOS fans like lesser fans.
That’s the point.
And by “you” I’m not meaning personally you, Lady-Shiroshika, but all of you who feel like talking down someone just because they dare to make a comparison between TOS and AOS without shitting on the latter. Unfortunately, for every reblog of that “even if you have watched only Star Trek (2009) movie you are a Star Trek fan, you are a Trekkie” posts, there are examples as above.
******************************
emotional!Quinto!Spock is canon, get over with it. (Nimoy!Spock just lived in a far more calmer environment so he lost his shit less)
self-doubting!Pine!Kirk is canon, get over with it. (yes, in STID he actually admitted he doesn’t know what he’s doing and that the crew doesn’t deserve him: it means be inexperienced and sincere and, you know, human, not “whiny”)
I-enjoy-sex!Pine!Kirk is canon, get over with it. (sexist Kirk where? If he were, Uhura would’ve never kept her job at the console where Pike has temporarily promoted here, Carol would’ve never be accepted on board and his opinion valued. He didn’t remember Chapel not because of sexism, but because he probably had just a one-night-stand with the girl: he’s allowed to not remember who “Christine” is, you know)
I-enjoy-my-being-committed-to-Uhura!Quinto!Spock is canon, get over with it (abusive relationship????? WTF you smoke? I might no be a Spock/Uhura fan myself, but... *facepalm*, he’s not a scared puppy entrapped in an emotionally abusive relationship with a evil woman )
Some of us either get it that AOS is a FULL AU - so it has nothing to do with TOS but for the character names (and Spock prime) - or just don’t care to compare. We have the right to not be looked down just because of that.
Spock’s life changed since the first movie so what you call OOCness is actually THIS SPOCK, and it’s CANON Spock. We never seen TOS Spock do certain things because his life was different at the point of time when TOS happens. And... that Spock lived with that senior crew where all was older and more “seasoned”. In AOS all the people surrounding Spock act very different and even a Vulcan will be affected by the environment around him. He doesn’t act OOC, he acts like a Spock with dead planet, dead mother, brash captain, etc, acts. Quinto!Spock IS NOT Nimoy!Spock: the sooner you all understand it, the better.
AOS Jim Kirk had a very entire different life and he’s a dick, yes, but let’s not forget that the very head of Starfleet was a BIG dick and that could say something about how things work differently in this Starfleet. This Jim is allowed to have self-doubts and be a dick because he’s been put on a chair when he didn’t have the time to grow up. We all would fuck up if suddenly we were put in charge of something this big like captaining a ship with 1000 people, a ship that has a bad case of “be at a wrong time wrong place” btw.
This Jim had no way do develop and become the self-assured captain we all know from Shatner’s acting: Pine!Kirk is all but a guy who mostly does the cocky because it’s the only way he knows to go on and do this job (be a captain).
Who produced/written/directed AOS movie could have done better? Yes.
Do the movies suck? No.
Do the movies succeeded in what the Paramount wanted (make cash)? Yes.
J.J. Abrams was asked to make a movie about a dying fandom and make it (the fandom) all cool again. He made it. They had to gather a specific type of fan (the one who think Kirk is a womanizer, the one who doesn’t care about gay rights or women rights in their popcorn movie, the one who want a blockbuster full of explosions and actions) and the crew (Orci, J.J ecc) did it.
Cumby was a big name that would bring flocks of non-Star Trek fans into theaters (see Pine joking about all Japanese fans at the airport shouting Cumby’s name). Might be sad, but there’s not POC actors at the moment that can guarantee the same amount of fans.
And let’s not kid ourselves: if Gene Roddenberry had the amount of cash J.J. was given, in TOS we’d see more explosions and less society commentary. What do we see in the TOS movies that followed TMP?
The fact is: when you have to make a tv show and you are given money that’s barely enough to cover the actors salary and some costume, you have to make up for it by filling 40 minutes with a plot. Roddenberry just came at the right time and right place: today his TOS would be far different. He was a misogynist himself, never forget, so a today TOS would be a mix of Kirk banging the woman-of-the-day (gratuitous booby scene included) and PEW PEW PEW scenes.
#########
During the long discussion I guess you kind of forgot the original point, which is that we AOS fans (the ones who liked the movies, the ones who paid money to own them in bluray, who would buy merchandise from them and can’t wait for the next one), are FUCKING TIRED of this AOS bashing around and.
Sunfell up here was expressing her personal own opinion on the different ways Nimoy and Quinto acted, and what was the reply they got? A bunch of facepalm gifs that were clear to be read as a “see this stupid fan and the shit they’re saying”. When a personal opinion about a movie character have become a reason to be treated like a stupid?
Look, I’ll make an example. I’m a huge X-Men comics fans. My favorite character is Angel, the dude with the feather wings.
Some years ago they decided to do a movie called X-Men First Class, which didn’t include THE first class (Cyclops, Jean Grey, Beast, Angel, Iceman). Do you know how pissed off I am when I see post where people, when the name “Angel” is comes up, think about the fairy-winged girl (a character that in the comics was just secondary) because that’s the character used in First Class, instead of the guy who’s been around 40 years, who is a founding members of the X-Men and a core member of the series?
So, to say I don’t care about the new X-Men movies is an understatement. But you know what? I don’t go into the tags to wank about movies that people loved. I just stay out of the fandom, I let the others enjoy their X-Men Movie verse, and hold dear my comic books. I don’t feel the need to put down every single scene because of this and that.
I get the critique about Khan/Cumby, I get the lack of rank on the women uniforms, I get many things that are troubling for people but these very people don’t seem to get that there are others who just enjoy movies for what they are - a distraction, something to spend good two hours not thinking about the shit of world we’re living in.
I’ve seen AOS-haters complaining about Star Trek Beyond, a movie we haven’t seen a thing about yet! People complaining about Uhura (and Sophia/Gazelle) be left in a corner of the plot because we have yet to see Zoe in any of those set pics released/stolen so far. I mean, we NEVER SAW Pine in any set pic leaked when they were filming Into Darkness, and he surely was part of it.
I’ve seen people complaining about the look of the new uniforms when the uniforms now are more closer to the original timeline (a mix between TOS and TNG). This isn’t complaining about bad casting choices or plot holes, this is trying to find ANYTHING to put down a movie and it’s killing the fun. It’s tiring, freaking tiring, to see this on my dash everyday. I am in a point of my life when I mostly react to AOS bashing (or SJW ignorance post or anything) with a facepalm, but I’m 30 and had certain life experiences to grow my hard shell: there are other people out there who are made to feel bad for liking a movie just because the movie doesn’t have enough women and POC or don’t feature a transgender or a homosexual.
Let me be clear on this point: it’s not just AOS, or Star Trek. It happens in every fandom (people who was made to feel bad about liking/not-being-annoyed by Bruce/Natasha in Avengers). It has to stop. I don’t want to see another person who feels ashamed to like something because “it’s problematic”.
You feel AOS movies are problematic? Sure: you had all the time to shit on them when Into Darkness was released, now move on, enjoy your TOS and stop treating AOS fans like lesser fans.
That’s the point.
And by “you” I’m not meaning personally you, Lady-Shiroshika, but all of you who feel like talking down someone just because they dare to make a comparison between TOS and AOS without shitting on the latter. Unfortunately, for every reblog of that “even if you have watched only Star Trek (2009) movie you are a Star Trek fan, you are a Trekkie” posts, there are examples as above.
******************************
emotional!Quinto!Spock is canon, get over with it. (Nimoy!Spock just lived in a far more calmer environment so he lost his shit less)
self-doubting!Pine!Kirk is canon, get over with it. (yes, in STID he actually admitted he doesn’t know what he’s doing and that the crew doesn’t deserve him: it means be inexperienced and sincere and, you know, human, not “whiny”)
I-enjoy-sex!Pine!Kirk is canon, get over with it. (sexist Kirk where? If he were, Uhura would’ve never kept her job at the console where Pike has temporarily promoted here, Carol would’ve never be accepted on board and his opinion valued. He didn’t remember Chapel not because of sexism, but because he probably had just a one-night-stand with the girl: he’s allowed to not remember who “Christine” is, you know)
I-enjoy-my-being-committed-to-Uhura!Quinto!Spock is canon, get over with it (abusive relationship????? WTF you smoke? I might no be a Spock/Uhura fan myself, but... *facepalm*, he’s not a scared puppy entrapped in an emotionally abusive relationship with a evil woman )