Um. Gaddafi was kind of slaughtering his own people, who as part of a popular revolution were advocating democratic reform, in flagrant violation of UN regulations, of which Libya is a member state. As far as I know we have conducted no raids against Libyan ground targets, have only interdicted their air force to PREVENT Libyan military assets from targeting civilians, and more than that we have the full backing of both France and the UK.
I'm sorry, but I really don't see what you're angry about here. This is an instance where military aid is clearly called for to help promote the greater freedoms of an oppressed people. This is absolutely nothing like the situation in Afghanistan or Iraq.
I agree, though I think in light of the oil situation, it isn't a bad idea to question Obama's motives a bit here. I also agree that generally speaking when the US gets involved things don't always go well. And that's actually somewhat of a massive understatement. :-P
But it does seem like on the whole we're on the right side here.
The US loses the moral high ground by turning a blind eye to atrocities in sub-Saharan Africa like the ongoing Congo war.
Not that I think it is the job of the US to be the world's police officer and enforcer of democracy (if such a thing exists - "You don't spread democracy through the barrel of a gun.") So the international community also loses the moral high ground, by ignoring war-torn states that lack valuable natural resources and/or nukes.
I dunno. It's hard not to be cynical. Qaddhafi is very clearly not a great guy, and he's very clearly not doing the right thing by his people, but I feel like half the reason we're even having this stuff now is that, back in the 80s, he was The Bulwark of Islamic Whatever Standing Up Against the Americans Bombing Libya On a Semi-Regular Basis. And in that cynical vein;
American protest movement to form. And this deserves one, dammit.
What for? I and a batch of other people protested like crazy, and it didn't make a damn bit of difference. Whenever you protest in the USA, the government does whatever it feels like, and the media tells you important stuff about the Mariners, or American Idol, or Charlie Sheen or whatever's the latest media thing.
Does anyone still believe that the people of Iraq or Afghanistan have benefited, on the whole, from our actions there?
Yes. You know the way it works.
we don't have the troops or the moneyThat's never been a problem in the past, has it? I'm pretty sure though this is the obligatory
( ... )
I either disagree or violently agree? I feel like the situation in Libya is exactly the sort of thing our useless bloated military aught to be used for. Its nearly clearly cut as a fight for freedom from tyranny and for democracy, but our state department has continually tried to delay and stall any sort of commitment, as have those of the European powers. The fact is Gadaffi was an ally, and no amount of bombastic rhetoric from him or from Regan changes the fact that he had overt sanction from the USA and Europe to do whatever he wanted to his own people as long as he, like Mubarak next door, traded nicely with the west. I find it disgusting that we can be in such idiotic wars in the middle east for no discernible reason while spouting catch phrases about freedom and liberty and American ideals, and when those ideals obviously need aid in a troubled land that badly wants our aid, we just wring our hands and shuffle our feet and try not to get involved because its unlikely we have a financial gain to make. I heard Saudi Arabia was
( ... )
At the the risk of making people mad at me and coming home to an inbox full of lecturing on why the US and its allies should/should not bomb Libya, this reminds me of One From The Vaults, a scan from The Horror Of It (ed. Frederick A. Barber. New York: Brewer, Warren & Putnam, 1932):
Wow, I fucking love that poem. It's only gotten more true -- I read somewhere that if the costs for military aircraft continue to rise along their present trajectory, by 2050 the USAF, Navy and Marines will have one aircraft to share between them.
Anyway, according to some website I just found, my last frost date is in two days? Feel the power of the Pacific Northwest.
And what a multi-dimensional tragedy that is. It's like the entire 20th century did nothing but grease the skids for even more military-industrial states and total warfare with a fig leaf of idealism on top of it... but I digress.
Anyway, according to some website I just found, my last frost date is in two days? Feel the power of the Pacific Northwest.
Holy shit! Mine's not until late May (with Memorial Day being the traditional southern New England planting day.) What with all this climate change and spring heat waves I keep jumping the gun, only to see my plants frost-damaged or killed in early May.
Also, just because it's after the last frost day doesn't mean plants will be happy. Heat-loving plants like peppers and melons will really suffer if it's dreary and in the 40s and 50s F. If you know some local gardeners or can find them online, I'd ask their advice about what to plant and when for your specific phytogeographic region.
And what a multi-dimensional tragedy that is. It's like the entire 20th century did nothing but grease the skids for even more military-industrial states and total warfare with a fig leaf of idealism on top of it... but I digress.
Actually I'd bet you that we'll see a global collapse before we see a global war again... no, that's a bad bet, the latter could easily precipitate the former. :p But the thing is, modern war as waged by industrial nations requires a huge amount of fossil fuels and other raw materials, and we, as a planet, just don't have a lot of disposable capacity for those things right now. Militarism is no more sustainable than consumerism. :p
Also, just because it's after the last frost day doesn't mean plants will be happy...
The "safe date" is apparently April 15. That assumes there is still something like "normal weather", of course. :) Anyway, yes, as an agri-n00b extraordinaire, I will be doing a *lot* of reading before I plant seed one.
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I'm sorry, but I really don't see what you're angry about here. This is an instance where military aid is clearly called for to help promote the greater freedoms of an oppressed people. This is absolutely nothing like the situation in Afghanistan or Iraq.
Reply
But it does seem like on the whole we're on the right side here.
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
The US loses the moral high ground by turning a blind eye to atrocities in sub-Saharan Africa like the ongoing Congo war.
Not that I think it is the job of the US to be the world's police officer and enforcer of democracy (if such a thing exists - "You don't spread democracy through the barrel of a gun.") So the international community also loses the moral high ground, by ignoring war-torn states that lack valuable natural resources and/or nukes.
Reply
American protest movement to form. And this deserves one, dammit.
What for? I and a batch of other people protested like crazy, and it didn't make a damn bit of difference. Whenever you protest in the USA, the government does whatever it feels like, and the media tells you important stuff about the Mariners, or American Idol, or Charlie Sheen or whatever's the latest media thing.
Does anyone still believe that the people of Iraq or Afghanistan have benefited, on the whole, from our actions there?
Yes. You know the way it works.
we don't have the troops or the moneyThat's never been a problem in the past, has it? I'm pretty sure though this is the obligatory ( ... )
Reply
Reply
( ... )
Reply
Anyway, according to some website I just found, my last frost date is in two days? Feel the power of the Pacific Northwest.
Reply
And what a multi-dimensional tragedy that is. It's like the entire 20th century did nothing but grease the skids for even more military-industrial states and total warfare with a fig leaf of idealism on top of it... but I digress.
Anyway, according to some website I just found, my last frost date is in two days? Feel the power of the Pacific Northwest.
Holy shit! Mine's not until late May (with Memorial Day being the traditional southern New England planting day.) What with all this climate change and spring heat waves I keep jumping the gun, only to see my plants frost-damaged or killed in early May.
Also, just because it's after the last frost day doesn't mean plants will be happy. Heat-loving plants like peppers and melons will really suffer if it's dreary and in the 40s and 50s F. If you know some local gardeners or can find them online, I'd ask their advice about what to plant and when for your specific phytogeographic region.
eeeeee now I'm excited about spring. :)
Reply
Actually I'd bet you that we'll see a global collapse before we see a global war again... no, that's a bad bet, the latter could easily precipitate the former. :p But the thing is, modern war as waged by industrial nations requires a huge amount of fossil fuels and other raw materials, and we, as a planet, just don't have a lot of disposable capacity for those things right now. Militarism is no more sustainable than consumerism. :p
Also, just because it's after the last frost day doesn't mean plants will be happy...
The "safe date" is apparently April 15. That assumes there is still something like "normal weather", of course. :) Anyway, yes, as an agri-n00b extraordinaire, I will be doing a *lot* of reading before I plant seed one.
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
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