Yes! That question of group/individual is very similar with the angels and the Cylons, I think, and in terms of how they negotiate being members of a power structure and in some cases being desirous of changing that structure is very similar, and in how they relate to humanity and their power over it.
I feel like the difference is, BSG struggled with the fairly clear power vectors between human and Cylon. The Cylons (like the angels) are basically immortal, basically indestructible, and have no qualms about utilizing the power they have over humans, and so humanity's hostile response to them is more than justified! But the narrative positioning was, like, "the audience, presumably human Americans, will identify with human Colonials, therefore their fear and hostility toward the Other is presumptively analogous to our hostility toward other human beings, and therefore deserves the same critique as post-9/11 American xenophobia." And given the historical moment the show was in, and the conversations it was almost necessarily going to be a part of, the postmodernist in me can't quite say that was a categorically bad choice? But it was a jarring one for me.
Human-angel power dynamics in Supernatural don't have that problem, probably in large part because they're not the point, even as they get more complicated and more important to the central storyline. "The audience, presumably human Americans, will identify with human hunters, and see that the fear and hostility with which humans approach angels is probably justified, but what are you going to do?" Which has its own issues in context, of culture and of the show's approach to Other-ness generally, but it's not, like, assuming I will participate in its victim-blaming as a foundational concept.
I don't know why seeing something so similar done so differently resolved that for me? But it did.
Sometimes, it's only with contrast that we see the better/clearer picture overall? :3 I think that's probably part of it.
The other part of it is probably that because the human-angels power dynamics not being as central to the show as the human-cylon dynamics obviously were in BSG, where the latter really was spectacular at bringing it up close and personal - SPN possibly distanced a bit of those dynamics to be better resolved when viewing BSG. It's almost as if the passiveness in SPN's dealing with this "otherness" highlights the activeness BSG took to deconstructing those boundaries defining "otherness", because - as you said - they were deliberately tackling the metaphor of 9/11 and America's xenophobia.
Whereas SPN has a very clear boundary surrounding "us" and "them" as the other. And angels are more clearly "other" than say... spirits, werewolves, vampires, zombies, and even demons - because many of those were human to begin with? Whereas, angels became more human from the stance of the other - so coming from the opposite direction (unless that's no longer true... as stated before - I still haven't watched most of the angel-centric seasons :D)? I have no idea if my rambling is making any sense any more. >>" Sorry. ><"
Work tomorrow, and I'm compulsively checking work e-mail for updates. (^_^)"
ETA: And of course, and I think you've mentioned this in your episode reviews for BSG, their attempt to equivocate Cylons with the human "other" isn't... quite 100% apt? Because of where the starting point of the narrative is and the fact that prior to them beginning to individualized and breaking consensus, they would have all been in the decision-making process to nuke twelve colonies of human beings and committing genocide? So I understand the lesson in not "othering" the other simply because they are different, and "some cylons CAN be good! - LOOK!", but at the same time, you have people constantly on the run, with who knows how much trauma/PTSD, and you're expecting them to be able to objectively look at the other as a whole and say, but "they are just like us!", which - actually makes things a THOUSAND times worse in this context because it shows that they are capable of making these choices and decisions, but DIDN'T starting out. Which, you know, children. They needed to learn it some way, and they did... just in the most horrific and painful way possible... ><" And don't get me wrong, I do love the cylons, but yeah... I'm going to stop rambling now... *goes to check e-mail again*
I feel like the difference is, BSG struggled with the fairly clear power vectors between human and Cylon. The Cylons (like the angels) are basically immortal, basically indestructible, and have no qualms about utilizing the power they have over humans, and so humanity's hostile response to them is more than justified! But the narrative positioning was, like, "the audience, presumably human Americans, will identify with human Colonials, therefore their fear and hostility toward the Other is presumptively analogous to our hostility toward other human beings, and therefore deserves the same critique as post-9/11 American xenophobia." And given the historical moment the show was in, and the conversations it was almost necessarily going to be a part of, the postmodernist in me can't quite say that was a categorically bad choice? But it was a jarring one for me.
Human-angel power dynamics in Supernatural don't have that problem, probably in large part because they're not the point, even as they get more complicated and more important to the central storyline. "The audience, presumably human Americans, will identify with human hunters, and see that the fear and hostility with which humans approach angels is probably justified, but what are you going to do?" Which has its own issues in context, of culture and of the show's approach to Other-ness generally, but it's not, like, assuming I will participate in its victim-blaming as a foundational concept.
I don't know why seeing something so similar done so differently resolved that for me? But it did.
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The other part of it is probably that because the human-angels power dynamics not being as central to the show as the human-cylon dynamics obviously were in BSG, where the latter really was spectacular at bringing it up close and personal - SPN possibly distanced a bit of those dynamics to be better resolved when viewing BSG. It's almost as if the passiveness in SPN's dealing with this "otherness" highlights the activeness BSG took to deconstructing those boundaries defining "otherness", because - as you said - they were deliberately tackling the metaphor of 9/11 and America's xenophobia.
Whereas SPN has a very clear boundary surrounding "us" and "them" as the other. And angels are more clearly "other" than say... spirits, werewolves, vampires, zombies, and even demons - because many of those were human to begin with? Whereas, angels became more human from the stance of the other - so coming from the opposite direction (unless that's no longer true... as stated before - I still haven't watched most of the angel-centric seasons :D)? I have no idea if my rambling is making any sense any more. >>" Sorry. ><"
Work tomorrow, and I'm compulsively checking work e-mail for updates. (^_^)"
ETA: And of course, and I think you've mentioned this in your episode reviews for BSG, their attempt to equivocate Cylons with the human "other" isn't... quite 100% apt? Because of where the starting point of the narrative is and the fact that prior to them beginning to individualized and breaking consensus, they would have all been in the decision-making process to nuke twelve colonies of human beings and committing genocide? So I understand the lesson in not "othering" the other simply because they are different, and "some cylons CAN be good! - LOOK!", but at the same time, you have people constantly on the run, with who knows how much trauma/PTSD, and you're expecting them to be able to objectively look at the other as a whole and say, but "they are just like us!", which - actually makes things a THOUSAND times worse in this context because it shows that they are capable of making these choices and decisions, but DIDN'T starting out. Which, you know, children. They needed to learn it some way, and they did... just in the most horrific and painful way possible... ><" And don't get me wrong, I do love the cylons, but yeah... I'm going to stop rambling now... *goes to check e-mail again*
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