Gadreel and audience expectations

[pocochina]

I could give a long list of things that I like about Carver's run of the show so far and it'd be totally honest. He's doing a lot of interesting stuff. But I think the core reason I'm enjoying it so much is that he manages to give me what I want but not at all in the way I'd expect it. And I think the opposite of that is happening for a lot of

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[cuddyclothes]

Once again, a fascinating post and yet intimidating. Until I'm more awake, I need to have the big lolz at the people who REFUSE to believe that was Ezekiel who said, "There ain't no me if there ain't no you" and make icons and hideous fanart with it. God, I'm incoherent. Later.

[pocochina]

Glad you liked!

I need to have the big lolz at the people who REFUSE to believe that was Ezekiel who said, "There ain't no me if there ain't no you" and make icons and hideous fanart with it

hahaha! THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS, PEOPLE.

[percysowner]

Fandom's attitude toward Meg drives me around the bend. Crowley is a bad guy, but on a personal level he has never been as bad to the Winchesters as Meg. Meg killed Pastor Jim and Caleb, friends of John and Sam and Dean. She helped her father possess John which led to John's death. She possesses Sam, murders in his body, tries to rape Meg, and tries to kill Dean. She murders Ellen and Jo and does it using Dean's personal nightmare, Hell Hounds. And Sam and Dean are supposed to feel bad that she died. I mean, yes, it amuses me to no end that Dean "how dare you trust Ruby even though she spent a year helping save us both and then 4 more months keeping you alive" Winchester decides to trust Meg who has done nothing but work to hurt Sam and Dean because...okay I never quite knew why he decided Meg was trustworthy. I know they trusted her because she hated Crowley and had the hots for Cas, but at the time, Crowley had actively helped try to stop Lucifer giving them bullets for the Colt, getting to Brady to help find and stop Pestilence,

[pocochina]

ME TOO, and I LIKE Meg. But I am perfectly capable of separating that from how the Winchesters might feel about her, GOD.

I actually can kind of understand the guys trusting her when they have no reason to do so, as some weird trauma-bond thing? But yeah, it amazes me that people forget that she worked for Azazel. She ACTUALLY DESERVED the kind of contempt the guys and fandom are happy to dump on Bela. She loved the YED as much as they loved John. The parts of fandom that just expect them to forget that and, IDK, start sending her valentines or whatever shit absolutely baffle me.

[cuddyclothes]

I have to admit, once Rachel Driver started playing her, I dug Meg, both evil and otherwise. I remember her being tortured by Corin (No Discernible Personality) and laughing hysterically. When he asks why, she says, "Dean Winchester's behind you!" The actress was undeniably charismatic. I never felt that she and Sam had a special relationship (is that up there somewhere in the post?) esp. since he had possessed him and tried to kill Dean when he wouldn't kill Sam. Her relationship with the brothers shifted--I can't remember when--but what she did was never excusable. And certainly Ruby was (in a relative sense) less harmful in the long run. She didn't kill anybody.

When Meg said, "Since when I am not Team Sam?" I was hoping he'd say, "Always." But no, they needed someone else for Sam to talk to about his year away besides Dean. Anyway, it's totally twisted of me, but I loved Meg and was heartbroken when she died. Not anything compared to the way I felt when Kevin died.

[pocochina]

I liked her too. Fandom has started to sour me on her, but really, whenever I've rewatched one of her episodes from the later seasons I've always enjoyed the character a lot.

When Meg said, "Since when I am not Team Sam?" I was hoping he'd say, "Always." But no, they needed someone else for Sam to talk to about his year away besides Dean.This is my PROBLEM. Like, the ~special bond~ she claims they have comes from that time she POSSESSED HIM. And that's gross, obviously, and it's really gross that people claim that as a straightforward good. That said, even though SHE POSSESSED HIM and is generally AWFUL, she is STILL more supportive of Sam than anyone else in Sam's life at that point. But that doesn't mean she's good, it means the people around Sam are major assholes TO SAM. And people using the fact that her victimization of him, as bad as it was, is pretty far in Sam's rearview mirror to claim that Sam SHOULD fret and fawn over her is what I mean about the expectation that Sam be truer to everyone else's feelings than his own

[cuddyclothes]

it means the people around Sam are major assholes TO SAM. And people using the fact that her victimization of him, as bad as it was, is pretty far in Sam's rear view mirror

But is it? He's always kept very far away from her, and has been quite hostile. Although Dean is generally "c'mon, Sam, what's your problem?" But then, that's how Dean is toward Sam 24/7. That Sam can even remember his own name without being prompted strikes me as amazing at this point.

[pocochina]

Fair point. Though by Sam's standards, "this person/entity hasn't beaten the crap out of me, roofied me, or called me sub-human trash in months" is normal person flowers and chocolate, so.

But yeah, Meg and Gabriel are the only two entities Sam's ever really been able to stay pissed at, and even then it's because they made the mistake of trying to get at him through Dean.

[bellonablack]

the acafans who went to a conference and argued with Ackles about what character Ackles himself was playing in the dreamscape, because they love Dean Winchester so fucking much they can’t even tell whether or not they’re looking at him on screen.

XD

IDK I JUST LOVE THIS. All the expectations...

[pocochina]

I'm going to be on tenterhooks for the next couple of days. This is so much more than I dared hope for, lol.

[duckondebut]

The only way we can have the visual shots fandom squees over so much is with these characters: (1) a Dean who’s at his most manipulative, needy, and self-pitying and (2) an equally needy, so desperate to soothe his shame complex with someone else’s approval that he will abandon any and all convictions he might have and become a killer, character played by JP who IS NOT EVEN SAM. Sam and Dean being happy together, if it’s possible (and I have serious misgivings on whether that can happen responsibly), is not going to look anything like this.

YESSSS. <333

And, like, Show has been doing this for a long, long time? The Siren episode from way back in s4--that fandom squees about till date--dealt with this rather well, I thought.

... which is why the "continuity"-policing that's rather picked up over the last couple of seasons baffles me? "Ugh, the SPN writers need to rewatch the series that they're writing for" is an actual post that's rather popular on my dash, which makes me think fandom is Dean-ing Show in some bizarre way.

[pocochina]

THE SIREN EPISODE. People will still cite the post-roofie lines as reasons why Sam is so fundamentally cruel and awful, without holding Dean accountable for the crap he was pulling before the siren infected him.

... which is why the "continuity"-policing that's rather picked up over the last couple of seasons baffles me? "Ugh, the SPN writers need to rewatch the series that they're writing for" is an actual post that's rather popular on my dash, which makes me think fandom is Dean-ing Show in some bizarre way.

"It's not what I want, so I'll yell over everyone who can articulate why it makes sense!" Yeah, they're Deaning the show, but worse than that they're trying to snow the shit out of other fans and it annoys the hell out of me.