December talking meme: 12/6

[pocochina]

male and female characters and childhood trauma, for Ray

Comments

[bellonablack]

Do you mean the responses to People who Stan for traumatized male characters?

Yes and yes I can agree. And I do think female trauma...I think it is borderline tolerated in that if it is overly discussed people can term that character as selfish? I think your Janice example too kind of would be the automatic response from the audience?

But yeah I think it is more seen as an agenda rather than true empathy if you stan for a traumatized character who is also a guy.

[pocochina]

But yeah I think it is more seen as an agenda rather than true empathy if you stan for a traumatized character who is also a guy.

Yeah, exactly. It's like "you must be falling for his act" and obviously couldn't possibly be psychological interest, human compassion, or actually being able to empathize with him.

[bellonablack]

I think for sure watching for psychological interest because it is genuinely engaging...I did have to qualify that over characters that while I didn't necessarily empathize with--I have those I do personally and those I don't--I found so so interesting and that appraocj really wasn't found that acceptable either lol.:/ I did have to say 'its not that I'd fantasize about him lol.' it's beyond frustrating to even have to divide those things to that degree to not really be discounted in discussion.

[rosaxx50]

Mhm, yes. Fandom is extremely dodgy in how it picks and chooses whose childhood abuse to acknowledge, and who to throw to the wolves.

On another note, I haven't read Laura Ingalls Wilder since I was about twelve and O_O wow I missed most of this.

[pocochina]

Mhm, yes. Fandom is extremely dodgy in how it picks and chooses whose childhood abuse to acknowledge, and who to throw to the wolves.

Seriously. And GOD HELP YOU if you think that the wrong childhood trauma matters.

On another note, I haven't read Laura Ingalls Wilder since I was about twelve and O_O wow I missed most of this.

It's actually pretty horrifying.

[sunclouds33]

Great points. To add to your points about Tony and Janice. Not to diminish Tony's trauma, but Tony channels his anger and lack of morality from his childhood home into being a successful mobster and Tony is the King of his world. Tony had to get therapy because his childhood traumas fostered panic attacks and depression which harms his business abilities. However, at root, Tony was shaped to be a success in his world based on his childhood and he does revel in it. Meanwhile, Janice is barred from being the King, ace mobster because she's a woman. So all of Janice's complexes from her childhood from her anger to her depression to her lack of motivation are just giant roadblocks to any success in any field whatsoever. Tony's anger is the source of his he-man power; Janice's anger is a big problem because once she snagged Bobby as a husband, she was supposed to be a good Italian mother who won't embarrass the family. Janice had to get anger management and succeed at it in order to keep the limited life she had as Bobby's wife. Tony can

[pocochina]

Janice is barred from being the King, ace mobster because she's a woman. So all of Janice's complexes from her childhood from her anger to her depression to her lack of motivation are just giant roadblocks to any success in any field whatsoever.

Yes, exactly. She can't even break into the mob wife circle until quite late in life, and then with lesser status as a second wife and stepmother, because the only role for women in her world is for thin bottle-blond less-Italian-looking Italian ladies.

The Cult of Pa, heh. That's a great way to put it.

[alexeia_drae]

I can't find the link now, but interestingly Laura Ingalls Wilder actually spoke out against spanking and wrote letters to the editor about it. She used the example of when she was spanked for slapping her sister as why it was an injustice and wrong. Coming from a family that did not condone violence I remember being horrified by that passage in the books, but looking back I can't for the life of me remember if it came off as an accepting this is the way it is or if there was something condemnatory about it.

[pocochina]

Laura Ingalls Wilder actually spoke out against spanking and wrote letters to the editor about it

I didn't know about that, but I'm very glad to hear it. With regard to the books, this is obviously skewed by the fact that I've only read about them recently but not read them for a very long time, but yeah, it's all presented such that popular culture at large conceives of Pa as a warm, loving patriarch, rather than a man who hits little girls.

[lynnenne]

There seems to be this idea that women who respond empathetically to such male characters are doing so in order to ~make excuses for their television crushes, silly wimmin!

Because we couldn't possibly be happy to see our own experiences reflected back to us via any character whatsoever. And yes, it would be amazing if there were more female protagonists with such stories, but tbh I'd be happy to see more female protagonists, period. The deck is stacked against us.

This post is much appreciated. Thanks for making it.

[pocochina]

EXACTLY. I mean, I'm stoked to see female characters like Regina Mills or Tara Maclay, who have these difficult histories and don't always deal with them well. But they're few and far between, and that's hardly OUR fault.

[lynnenne]

OH MY GOD TARA. I loved her story so much, and hated it at the same time. She is one of my favorite characters ever.

[pocochina]

MINE TOOOOO.