SPN 9x1

[pocochina]

Sam’s dreamscape

We rarely seen Dean from Sam’s POV - the only time I can think of is the hallucination in Levee, where head!Dean was basically saying what actual Dean was saying. Sam thinks of Dean as his survival instinct, yes, but also, Sam’s subconscious pictures Dean whaling on him. (Sam also doesn’t see himself as being in control of his

Comments

[pocochina]

I suppose I just want to believe it was Dean saying those things to Sam, not Ezekiel. Also, surely Death would have recognised him has not!Dean and warned Sam? Maybe?

I think there was some kind of angelic mind-meld going on, for sure. But...idk, in Dean's shoes, would you drop two giant hints about the one thing you know the person you're negotiating with does not want? Let me in; you can't shut me out. I think some of the emotion coming through was Dean, but I don't think he was the one steering the general thrust of that conversation.

I don't mind the reading that Dean is being used (again, not something I fully considered) - only, I don't like that Dean is being used. *pouts* I would rather he not have been played, but if he has been I suppose it makes for another tangle in the story line.

With SPN I have a pretty strong presumption that the supes are playing any humans they come across until I have really good reason to believe otherwise. And I think Dean definitely knew that he needed Ezekiel much more than Ezekiel needed him, though I don't know if all the potential problems have sunk in for him yet.

If - best case scenario - The angel is healed and leaves sam without Sam ever knowing and Sam is healed - then all will be fine. Ha! Did I just say that?! So not going to happen. (Dean's thinking though).

THAT WOULD BE THE CREEPIEST OMG. (So...part of me would love it, lol.) Because then how would he ever know again how much there was really Sam?

how it emphasises the messiness of their relationship and how, above all, fandom is talking about all this stuff.

YES. See, this is my thing. My issues with Dean* come from his own ability to rationalize, and the weird static between him and the audience that apparently lets people buy his rationalizations. The fact that this episode really took out the clue-by-four and laid out the problems here - not least because Dean himself did a lot less rationalizing on-screen - made him a good deal more sympathetic to me, not less.

*to be clear, I don't have even the slightest quarrel with the storytelling or acting or whatever. It's the kind of visceral reaction that comes from great characterization.

[ash48]

but I don't think he was the one steering the general thrust of that conversation.

I would actually love to know what Carver was thinking when he wrote that (or when it was being directed). I have heard good arguments on both sides and I think the only way we will know is if a) it becomes clear in future episodes, or b) TPTB tell us. They often do this to us though - leave the interpretation open. At the end of the day all that mattered was Sam saying yes.

though I don't know if all the potential problems have sunk in for him yet.

They haven't. A bit like the viewer I think. Half of what has been discussed post episode didn't even cross my mind on the first viewing. Including that Ezekiel maybe ...well, all sort of things!

I don't have even the slightest quarrel with the storytelling or acting or whatever. It's the kind of visceral reaction that comes from great characterization.

I yeah. I get that. That's was discussing is all about. ;) It our own way of rationalising why a character might do something and deciding what angle to take when examining the episode.

[pocochina]

I would actually love to know what Carver was thinking when he wrote that (or when it was being directed). I have heard good arguments on both sides and I think the only way we will know is if a) it becomes clear in future episodes, or b) TPTB tell us. They often do this to us though - leave the interpretation open.

I would not be surprised if the blurring between Dean and Ezekiel in that moment was purposeful on the part of the narrative, to show us that Ezekiel is that capable of taking on certain characteristics of whatever vessel he's using if he thinks it's necessary or advantageous. If there's more to his possession abilities than just an on/off switch, then there's the question of how much of Sam himself Ezekiel can imitate or appropriate, and that makes things even more interesting.

Half of what has been discussed post episode didn't even cross my mind on the first viewing. Including that Ezekiel maybe ...well, all sort of things!

Yes! This episode was packed with enough stuff to go in any number of wild directions.