I feel like such a weirdo. In terms of ideology, I kind of straddle the 2nd/3rd wave divide. In terms of age, well, I'm turning 30 this year, but honestly, I tend to have more in common with middle-aged women, really. Maybe it's the not planning to have kids thing. I'm a pro-sex (not anti-porn or anti-sex work in theory, although often in practice) feminist without feeling like empowerfulment is the most important thing women can pursue. I just feel like there needs to be a word for feminists like me. I'm not a radical feminist, but I'm not exactly a stereotypical liberal feminist either. Huh. Anyway, reading your posts helps me feel connected to the larger community of feminists. Much more so than reading (or contributing) to my feminist blogs.
Maybe we should just get rid of the "wave" terminology, since it articulates this huge generational divide that doesn't really exist. In reality, cohorts overlap and blend into one another.
Maybe we should just get rid of the "wave" terminology, since it articulates this huge generational divide that doesn't really exist
Yeah. I think it's definitely overstated in its importance, and it's especially frustrating that the more descriptive, philosophical "feminisms" are almost all construed to be second wave (liberal, radical, lesbian, so on) and while I get that Gen X/Yers don't love labeling ourselves, man those descriptors can be useful shorthand
( ... )
I think using Roe as a huge separating marker is pretty darn alienating to those of us who Roe means nothing or little to.
There are a whooole lot of feminists in the World That Isn't The USA - but you won't find that acknowledged often by the US-centric femiblogosphere; and when it is mentioned there, hoo boy, the backlash is frightening.
And there are a whole lot of people for whom the choice to have a child can be more uphill than the choice not to have one; positing abortion rights as THE feminist battle (and therefore Roe as THE huge event in feminist history) prioritises the reproductive oppression of certain people in certain situations. (Surprise! It's primarily white well-off currently-nondisabled premenopausal cis feminists again.)
I get what you're saying (especially on the US-centrism). But I do think that because abortion rights are fundamentally connected to issues of bodily autonomy I personally consider them more fundamental than the struggles of women To Have a child. Not to say that those struggles aren't important and shouldn't be supported by mainstream feminism, but they don't seem to be predicated on the same basic struggle to be recognized as a fully autonomous human. Although I might be missing something obvious. I have Finals brain.
Also, this: "primarily white well-off currently-nondisabled premenopausal cis feminists" seems a little off to me. When I worked in an abortion clinic very few of our clients were white, well-off, currently non-disabled, cis feminists. Most were Cis, and currently non-disabled, and a massive proportion were non-white and poor. But speaking as a disabled woman, an unwanted pregnancy would be catastrophic for me.
I think what you're missing is the history (which continues today) of forced abortion and forced contraception/sterilisation of people in marginalised groups.
In terms of the part you considered "off" - I tried to word that very carefully, but still seem not to have communicated. Yes, I'm well aware that people in marginalised groups needs abortion access also. However the group for whom abortion is pretty much the _only_ reproductive justice issue are the group I described; the group who are considered "good parents" by the kyriarchy. For other people, reproductive justice, on a personal level, can be a whole lot broader.
I join you as a disabled woman for whom another pregnancy would be catastrophic, btw.
I think that's a really important point. Roe does seem to be the landmark which third-wavers especially seem to use as a dividing point, and it's maybe not the best one for a lot of reasons. It's problematic that we tend to use it as shorthand for the huge number of changes that happened in such a short period of time (here). I'd have been uncomfortable addressing non-US abortion politics in the context of this article because I don't want to impute the ageism of some young feminists here to our peers abroad, but I think the point is sound and I appreciate it.
I was raised by a feminist mom and got a lot of the 101-type stuff growing up. I don't know if it was moving to Seattle, or my age, or being in school, or the historical or personal events of the last few years, but intersectionality has been my big lesson for the last few years. I'm still learning it.
You make such great points about ageism. I really appreciate it, because it's one that I'm sort of under-aware of.
Ha. Yeah, I was all postadolescent rebellious liberal and went all women's studies and learned loads about intersectional theory before I got my head around "....and Having The Sex doesn't make me a horrible person who deserves my gruesome and inevitable demise!" which is the kind of thing that apparently lots of these ladies learned without even knowing it. Just one of the issues that's stood out to me there, I suppose, I shouldn't have generalized.
I kind of got a crash course in ageism blogging the primaries a couple of years ago, and it's amazing how the same offenders keep on showing up. BOOOOO.
I feel like such a weirdo. In terms of ideology, I kind of straddle the 2nd/3rd wave divide. In terms of age, well, I'm turning 30 this year, but honestly, I tend to have more in common with middle-aged women, really. Maybe it's the not planning to have kids thing. I'm a pro-sex (not anti-porn or anti-sex work in theory, although often in practice) feminist without feeling like empowerfulment is the most important thing women can pursue. I just feel like there needs to be a word for feminists like me. I'm not a radical feminist, but I'm not exactly a stereotypical liberal feminist either. Huh. Anyway, reading your posts helps me feel connected to the larger community of feminists. Much more so than reading (or contributing) to my feminist blogs.
Maybe we should just get rid of the "wave" terminology, since it articulates this huge generational divide that doesn't really exist. In reality, cohorts overlap and blend into one another.
Reply
Maybe we should just get rid of the "wave" terminology, since it articulates this huge generational divide that doesn't really exist
Yeah. I think it's definitely overstated in its importance, and it's especially frustrating that the more descriptive, philosophical "feminisms" are almost all construed to be second wave (liberal, radical, lesbian, so on) and while I get that Gen X/Yers don't love labeling ourselves, man those descriptors can be useful shorthand ( ... )
Reply
There are a whooole lot of feminists in the World That Isn't The USA - but you won't find that acknowledged often by the US-centric femiblogosphere; and when it is mentioned there, hoo boy, the backlash is frightening.
And there are a whole lot of people for whom the choice to have a child can be more uphill than the choice not to have one; positing abortion rights as THE feminist battle (and therefore Roe as THE huge event in feminist history) prioritises the reproductive oppression of certain people in certain situations. (Surprise! It's primarily white well-off currently-nondisabled premenopausal cis feminists again.)
Reply
Also, this: "primarily white well-off currently-nondisabled premenopausal cis feminists" seems a little off to me. When I worked in an abortion clinic very few of our clients were white, well-off, currently non-disabled, cis feminists. Most were Cis, and currently non-disabled, and a massive proportion were non-white and poor. But speaking as a disabled woman, an unwanted pregnancy would be catastrophic for me.
Reply
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In terms of the part you considered "off" - I tried to word that very carefully, but still seem not to have communicated. Yes, I'm well aware that people in marginalised groups needs abortion access also. However the group for whom abortion is pretty much the _only_ reproductive justice issue are the group I described; the group who are considered "good parents" by the kyriarchy. For other people, reproductive justice, on a personal level, can be a whole lot broader.
I join you as a disabled woman for whom another pregnancy would be catastrophic, btw.
Reply
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You make such great points about ageism. I really appreciate it, because it's one that I'm sort of under-aware of.
Reply
I kind of got a crash course in ageism blogging the primaries a couple of years ago, and it's amazing how the same offenders keep on showing up. BOOOOO.
Reply
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