reality check.....

[pianojet]

If there was 1 trait that I would bestow upon the whole world of people, I would grant open-mindedness (unbiased, reasoning, examine-all-facts mentality). But I will break that down into 3 exquisite personal traits that help make up a respectful character and personality. I am being broad, here, but add more if I miss something important!

I'm

Comments

[pianojet]

Indeed. As I pointed out earlier, "I'm getting into a bit of a rhetoric rumble here, and I would need to go more in depth with how I define such words as "perfect," "selfish," and "perspective" and I don't want to do that right now. I believe my point is made."

To be selfless is "having, exhibiting, or motivated by no concern for oneself; unselfish." Therefore, to be totally selfless is to be totally motivated by no concern for oneself at all. Is that possible? I don't think so.

To be selfish is the direct opposite, "Concerned chiefly or only with oneself." Therefore, to be totally selfish is to be totally motivated by concern for oneself entirely.

Whats wrong with "selfishness?" People, in the end, needlessly get hurt because they are not involved in the equations of protocol. I am not even speaking in the grand context of religion or government, I am simply saying that obviously when somebody makes a decision, it is important for that person to consider other the consequences on both his or herself and other people.

A problem that I see is there are people that do not put enough emphasis on how their actions effect other people. Another problem that I see is that there are people that do not put enough emphasis on how their actions effect themselves.

Therefore, as I stated as clearly as I could last post, "The point is to [care for oneself] in such a way that others are benefited as well, greed is minimized, [or] harm done to others is minimized.

The "or" is a keyword that I forgot earlier.

I hope that makes the point more clear, I appologize for the messy language earlier.

Out of curiosity, what do you think about the golden rule, "Treat others as you would be treated?"

[like_atlas]

Indeed, well stated.

I think you and I get lost with each other in that we hold different definitions ;)

That's why, often, I try to refer to my individual philosophy as rational selfishness, not Hedonistic. The standard of rational selfishness is not pleasure (which leads to the harmful, error-filled selfishness that I think you refer to), but rather, the standard is life. And with this standard comes respect for the individual rights of others.

I am very big on respect and individual freedoms. Therefore, "treat others as you would be treated" is not necessarily a bad rule to live by. To me, it means "respect others". Don't inflict things upon others that you yourself would view as unjust were they inflicted on you.

However, my main motive in anything I do is selfish. I think everybody's motive is selfish. Some just hold wrong premises. If sacrifice is your premise, then giving up your happiness for the happiness of another is still selfishness, albeit a little skewed, for you are doing what you think is right, thus gaining spiritual benefits.

I agree with your points. I think that to care for oneself, and to act so that greed is minimalized and harm to others is also lessened is a wonderful goal. As long as care for oneself is not discarded. Just because I am motivated by concern for my own interests (which I believe is a proper motivation) doesn't mean that I will be greedy and harmful.

True selfishness excludes greed and force, because greed and force are both infringements upon natural rights. And if you don't respect the natural rights of other men, you violate your own, and other men are in no way obligated to respect yours. I think reason and rationality exclude greed and force. But thinking individuals are few and far between nowadays. Mostly, people are Hedonistic, acting on self-gratification, never stopping to think whether their premises are right.

See, your pleasure derives from your premises about life. Therefore, if you hold the wrong views on life, you may find the wrong things pleasurable. Pleasure is not the moral standard of right and wrong. And sadly, most advocates of self-esteem and selfishness base their lives on pleasure, not reason.

Perhaps, if I were to use the word self-esteem it would make the dialogue clearer.

I have yet to think it through, but I'm certain that there is a way to maintain self-esteem and still help others. Yet self-sacrifice is, in my opinion, not a virtue and should not be encouraged.

We should start an online philosophy forum or something ;-)