when you give up on a creator
John SeaveyEveryone has that point where they can no longer separate the art from the artist, and they just can’t keep following a person’s work because as talented as they are, that person is a thundering asshole.
(And let me stress, this is different from suddenly realizing that someone’s actually horrifically untalented and that everything you thought you liked from them was really just superficially entertaining in a glossy way that covered up its huge, fundamental flaws. That’s what we call a “Mark Millar” moment.)
But I was interested in finding out what makes it happen for other people.
I don't hate Warren Ellis, but when I gave up on Authority (after the first Millar storyline, which felt to me like a giant insult caricature of American superheroes), I just sold all my Authority issues, including the Ellis ones. I don't know where it went after that, but why hang onto a piece of that series as it was then going that far from anything I want? Why hang onto the Ellis Authority if he thought Millar was a good successor?
I haven't looked at the new Stormwatch.
I kind of shy away from British comic-book writers in general now. But let's be clear: Morrison and Gaiman1 aren't so awful; yeah they come out of British horror comics, but they treat American pop culture with affection rather than fury. Millar (or probably his editors) wants to mock American violent culture while wallowing in it. I can do that myself, I can read Yank writers who do that, I don't some Scot who doesn't know my country assuming that all we are and all we produce is like that.
I mean, Captain America mocking France as surrender monkeys in the 1940's? Really? Apparently all Americans were always Fox News in his head.
Gar.
Beside the point, I know. OK, start again:
Sometimes it's just getting wise to someone's tropes and getting sick enough of them. Chris Claremont and Jim Shooter both mean a lot to me in an odd way, but I'm not running out to get books they write because, well, I've already absorbed a lot of what they have to say, I guess.
Shooter comes to mind because of things he fostered that collapsed oddly: The New Universe and Valiant. But I still have my Valiants. I didn't sell them when they were worth lots, and now I forget I have them in a closet. Hm. So while I sort of gave up on his new stuff, that's not it either.
I don't know. This week I was looking at posts I made several years ago. Like my old Killing Joke post that seemed to attract so many views--and there's a bit in there about realizing that Alan Moore was probably actually a real creep to people (rather than the victim genius his fans seem to want to read him as). But I was always skeeved by Alan Moore.
I'm not thinking of really strong comics examples of what Seavey is talking about. Well, Frank Miller (as mentioned is Seavey's post) is obvious. But there are some mild cases like it.
Oh, wait. The "Marvel-less Seven," weren't they called? I actually gained respect for Larsen over time, and got really sick of some the others. I don't know, that's different still.
You want a counter-example? Neal Adams may actually be losing his mind now, and I haven't always loved Neal Adams or anything, but my respect for him has gone up over time. Yeah, he wasn't exactly as much a one-man new wave as he has sometimes represented himself, but there is a germ of truth in it. Our comics culture needs to get beyond Adamsian melodrama, but he really did reinvigorate American comic-book illustration, and he deserves respect for that.
1: (For the record, I like very few Gaiman stories, but the man doesn't piss me off with his career. He's just like a pop star that I don't care for.)
This entry was originally posted at http://philippos42.dreamwidth.org/104548.html, where Russian botspam is a rarity.
(And let me stress, this is different from suddenly realizing that someone’s actually horrifically untalented and that everything you thought you liked from them was really just superficially entertaining in a glossy way that covered up its huge, fundamental flaws. That’s what we call a “Mark Millar” moment.)
But I was interested in finding out what makes it happen for other people.
I don't hate Warren Ellis, but when I gave up on Authority (after the first Millar storyline, which felt to me like a giant insult caricature of American superheroes), I just sold all my Authority issues, including the Ellis ones. I don't know where it went after that, but why hang onto a piece of that series as it was then going that far from anything I want? Why hang onto the Ellis Authority if he thought Millar was a good successor?
I haven't looked at the new Stormwatch.
I kind of shy away from British comic-book writers in general now. But let's be clear: Morrison and Gaiman1 aren't so awful; yeah they come out of British horror comics, but they treat American pop culture with affection rather than fury. Millar (or probably his editors) wants to mock American violent culture while wallowing in it. I can do that myself, I can read Yank writers who do that, I don't some Scot who doesn't know my country assuming that all we are and all we produce is like that.
I mean, Captain America mocking France as surrender monkeys in the 1940's? Really? Apparently all Americans were always Fox News in his head.
Gar.
Beside the point, I know. OK, start again:
Sometimes it's just getting wise to someone's tropes and getting sick enough of them. Chris Claremont and Jim Shooter both mean a lot to me in an odd way, but I'm not running out to get books they write because, well, I've already absorbed a lot of what they have to say, I guess.
Shooter comes to mind because of things he fostered that collapsed oddly: The New Universe and Valiant. But I still have my Valiants. I didn't sell them when they were worth lots, and now I forget I have them in a closet. Hm. So while I sort of gave up on his new stuff, that's not it either.
I don't know. This week I was looking at posts I made several years ago. Like my old Killing Joke post that seemed to attract so many views--and there's a bit in there about realizing that Alan Moore was probably actually a real creep to people (rather than the victim genius his fans seem to want to read him as). But I was always skeeved by Alan Moore.
I'm not thinking of really strong comics examples of what Seavey is talking about. Well, Frank Miller (as mentioned is Seavey's post) is obvious. But there are some mild cases like it.
Oh, wait. The "Marvel-less Seven," weren't they called? I actually gained respect for Larsen over time, and got really sick of some the others. I don't know, that's different still.
You want a counter-example? Neal Adams may actually be losing his mind now, and I haven't always loved Neal Adams or anything, but my respect for him has gone up over time. Yeah, he wasn't exactly as much a one-man new wave as he has sometimes represented himself, but there is a germ of truth in it. Our comics culture needs to get beyond Adamsian melodrama, but he really did reinvigorate American comic-book illustration, and he deserves respect for that.
1: (For the record, I like very few Gaiman stories, but the man doesn't piss me off with his career. He's just like a pop star that I don't care for.)
This entry was originally posted at http://philippos42.dreamwidth.org/104548.html, where Russian botspam is a rarity.