Now, one of my first thoughts last night on seeing EvilClone!Martha was 'someone's got to do a fic on this where she seduces the Doctor'. Pers, I am looking at you. ;-)
Anyway, agreed with much of what you've said here actually. As funny as the pay off on the Doctor+Donna goodbye scene was, the whole thing seemed very out of place; rather 'too soon'. That said, maybe he's learned his lesson from his appalling treatment of Martha and is determined not to repeat his mistake.
The gun rant; again that was rather overcooked. When you watch back the Three episodes, he makes his point about guns in a far more subtle and effective way. That felt like lazy writing - 'let's just stick in a few line rant and we'll cover it that way'.
I love Wilf. I want him to be my grandad.
I loved the final shot as well, Ten standing in the street shrouded in poisoned fog.
So, did the clone put on Martha's ring? If not, I wonder if that's how Donna will suss her out.
So, did the clone put on Martha's ring? If not, I wonder if that's how Donna will suss her out.
I had the same thought as you, so I watched again carefully with my hand on the pause button. Evil twin Martha does have all Martha's jewelry on, including (somewhat inexplicably) her earrings.
I liked the episode okay, but there were far more things that ticked me off than things that pleased me. The gun rant was ridiculous, I mean yeah sure we know that the Doctor isn't a fan of weapons but there are differences between owning a gun for personal use as opposed to, uh, having them in order to do your job of protecting the world. Ugh.
And the Doctor saying to Martha rather sarcastically "Oh so it's my fault." Well, Doc, it sort of was.
Plus the "you saved my life in so many ways" speech was just such a WTF moment for me. I love Donna and if things were different I am positive that she deserves to hear that from him, but as it stands, I think Martha deserves to hear that more than her right now.
I have no idea what next week brings, but I'm not even going to hold my breath anymore about Martha getting her due, and be treated the way she should be treated.. How hard is it for them to write a few lines of dialogue that'll recognize her awesomeness? Argh. *goes off to watch some Four eps to feel better*
And the Doctor saying to Martha rather sarcastically "Oh so it's my fault." Well, Doc, it sort of was.
I personally think there's no "sort of" about it. It is totally his fault. He broke her and then remade her in his image - you've only got to watch her TW eps to see that (crucifixion imagery; hand; premature ageing; worshipfulness of everyone at TW, but epsecially Jack)...
I love Donna too - she rocks my socks, but she didn't deserve that speech YET and Martha's still waiting for it !!
I have no idea what next week brings, but I'm not even going to hold my breath anymore about Martha getting her due, and be treated the way she should be treated.. How hard is it for them to write a few lines of dialogue that'll recognize her awesomeness?
Bloody impossible, apparently !
Argh. *goes off to watch some Four eps to feel better*
Me, I'm writing fic like a fic-writing machine !! (1 written and posted, 1 written and waiting to be typed up, three to write so far !)
isn't it about time RTD got over his habit of airing his mother issues on the show?
It does make you wonder, doesn't it?
Donna save the Doctor's life (literally or even emotionally)
The button-pushing moment in Fires of Pompeii giving him that implicit validation that he did do the right thing at the end of the Time War comes close, I think.
I think part of the problem with the goodbye comparison is that they're trying to fix things without really admitting they messed it up in the first place. On one level, I think the fact that Martha and the Doctor are bimbling along without really confronting this stuff is quite realistic, but it's not going to be enough to satisfy people. (Possibly the evil Martha will bring it all to a head, or possibly ep 6 will cover it. We can hope.)
The button-pushing moment in Fires of Pompeii giving him that implicit validation that he did do the right thing at the end of the Time War comes close, I think.
But I still don't see that as "saving" his life - of course it's important for both of them, but I don't equate it with saving Ten's life either physically or emotionally...
I think part of the problem with the goodbye comparison is that they're trying to fix things without really admitting they messed it up in the first place.
Yes !
On one level, I think the fact that Martha and the Doctor are bimbling along without really confronting this stuff is quite realistic, but it's not going to be enough to satisfy people. (Possibly the evil Martha will bring it all to a head, or possibly ep 6 will cover it. We can hope.)
My hopes are not high at the moment... I noticed that the Doctor asked Martha how she was, after asking her family, but she never got to answer because Donna appeared at that moment...
I think the whole "premature heartfelt farewell to Donna" was a very intentional irony -- not saying it to Martha when the time was right, and saying it to Donna at the wrong time. Like, "Ha ha, isn't the Doctor just adorably funny in his inability to get the emotional stuff right? But at least now he's trying."
I'm assuming the omission with Martha is going to be corrected next time, though it remains to be seen if I'm right, and even if I am, it remains to be seen whether it really touches a chord or simply feels like an afterthought shoehorned between action sequences.
Right now I'm anticipating a Shoe Horn, 'cos Team Cardiff do love their shoehorns...
And on one level, the emotional ineptitude is funny (Donna letting him babble on until he realises she's not leaving him for good, and then her "dumbo" and "dunce" comments are funny) - but on the level, they're just making the Doctor look more and more of an idiot with anyone who's not Rose.
It also makes me worry -- and this is my paranoia talking -- that because he didn't have the best reception for his goodbye with Donna, he might not even attempt with Martha as he might carry over some of that shame and embarrassment he felt after looking foolish. *worries*
I didn't really like the episode at all on first watching, but I think it's grown on me. I'm very happy to see Donna and Martha hit it off so well. I'm so relieved.
I read the Doctor's goodbye to Donna more as him saying something warm and affectionate and totally random off the top of his head because he thinks it's his last chance to speak up. I'd guess he knows he buggered everything up royally with Martha and he doesn't want to make the same mistakes all over again with Donna. Maybe he thinks it's too late to say whatever he wanted to say to Martha and if Donna walks out on him too it will be too late again.
Because he's a doofus? Bad writing? They're falling back into old form a bit with this episode and it's making me pessimistic about what we'll actually get. :/
Comments 72
Anyway, agreed with much of what you've said here actually. As funny as the pay off on the Doctor+Donna goodbye scene was, the whole thing seemed very out of place; rather 'too soon'. That said, maybe he's learned his lesson from his appalling treatment of Martha and is determined not to repeat his mistake.
The gun rant; again that was rather overcooked. When you watch back the Three episodes, he makes his point about guns in a far more subtle and effective way. That felt like lazy writing - 'let's just stick in a few line rant and we'll cover it that way'.
I love Wilf. I want him to be my grandad.
I loved the final shot as well, Ten standing in the street shrouded in poisoned fog.
So, did the clone put on Martha's ring? If not, I wonder if that's how Donna will suss her out.
Reply
I had the same thought as you, so I watched again carefully with my hand on the pause button. Evil twin Martha does have all Martha's jewelry on, including (somewhat inexplicably) her earrings.
Reply
Reply
Reply
And the Doctor saying to Martha rather sarcastically "Oh so it's my fault." Well, Doc, it sort of was.
Plus the "you saved my life in so many ways" speech was just such a WTF moment for me. I love Donna and if things were different I am positive that she deserves to hear that from him, but as it stands, I think Martha deserves to hear that more than her right now.
I have no idea what next week brings, but I'm not even going to hold my breath anymore about Martha getting her due, and be treated the way she should be treated.. How hard is it for them to write a few lines of dialogue that'll recognize her awesomeness? Argh. *goes off to watch some Four eps to feel better*
Reply
I personally think there's no "sort of" about it. It is totally his fault. He broke her and then remade her in his image - you've only got to watch her TW eps to see that (crucifixion imagery; hand; premature ageing; worshipfulness of everyone at TW, but epsecially Jack)...
I love Donna too - she rocks my socks, but she didn't deserve that speech YET and Martha's still waiting for it !!
I have no idea what next week brings, but I'm not even going to hold my breath anymore about Martha getting her due, and be treated the way she should be treated.. How hard is it for them to write a few lines of dialogue that'll recognize her awesomeness?
Bloody impossible, apparently !
Argh. *goes off to watch some Four eps to feel better*
Me, I'm writing fic like a fic-writing machine !! (1 written and posted, 1 written and waiting to be typed up, three to write so far !)
Reply
It does make you wonder, doesn't it?
Donna save the Doctor's life (literally or even emotionally)
The button-pushing moment in Fires of Pompeii giving him that implicit validation that he did do the right thing at the end of the Time War comes close, I think.
I think part of the problem with the goodbye comparison is that they're trying to fix things without really admitting they messed it up in the first place. On one level, I think the fact that Martha and the Doctor are bimbling along without really confronting this stuff is quite realistic, but it's not going to be enough to satisfy people. (Possibly the evil Martha will bring it all to a head, or possibly ep 6 will cover it. We can hope.)
Reply
It really does !!
The button-pushing moment in Fires of Pompeii giving him that implicit validation that he did do the right thing at the end of the Time War comes close, I think.
But I still don't see that as "saving" his life - of course it's important for both of them, but I don't equate it with saving Ten's life either physically or emotionally...
I think part of the problem with the goodbye comparison is that they're trying to fix things without really admitting they messed it up in the first place.
Yes !
On one level, I think the fact that Martha and the Doctor are bimbling along without really confronting this stuff is quite realistic, but it's not going to be enough to satisfy people. (Possibly the evil Martha will bring it all to a head, or possibly ep 6 will cover it. We can hope.)
My hopes are not high at the moment... I noticed that the Doctor asked Martha how she was, after asking her family, but she never got to answer because Donna appeared at that moment...
Reply
I'm assuming the omission with Martha is going to be corrected next time, though it remains to be seen if I'm right, and even if I am, it remains to be seen whether it really touches a chord or simply feels like an afterthought shoehorned between action sequences.
Reply
And on one level, the emotional ineptitude is funny (Donna letting him babble on until he realises she's not leaving him for good, and then her "dumbo" and "dunce" comments are funny) - but on the level, they're just making the Doctor look more and more of an idiot with anyone who's not Rose.
Reply
Reply
And yes, he looks very very tired :|
Reply
I read the Doctor's goodbye to Donna more as him saying something warm and affectionate and totally random off the top of his head because he thinks it's his last chance to speak up. I'd guess he knows he buggered everything up royally with Martha and he doesn't want to make the same mistakes all over again with Donna. Maybe he thinks it's too late to say whatever he wanted to say to Martha and if Donna walks out on him too it will be too late again.
Reply
Reply
Reply
As Donna said - Great big space alien dunce (or words to that effect !)
Bad writing?
Well yeah - HR is far from my fave RTD!Who writer !
They're falling back into old form a bit with this episode and it's making me pessimistic about what we'll actually get. :/
I am trepidatious about the next episode...
Reply
Leave a comment