Comments | paulhope: Eating my words

paulhope

Eating my words

Mar 14, 2006 11:53

Remember all that stuff I was saying about the film, "Load After Load," playing at the party of My Pal, Foot Foot? I take it back. Shame, shame, shame--what's wrong with me? Here's a problem with having (acknowledging) split motivations for every action ( Read more... )

emotional vocabulary, shame, my pal foot foot, combinatorial explosion, literature

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this is hal anonymous March 15 2006, 04:00:03 UTC

Modern hipsterism is like the consumerist farce of historical countercultures. It's something you buy into, or at least the Ivy League version is, by wearing certain clothes and listening to certain bands. It represents the recuperation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recuperation) of deviant tendencies into a more or less socially acceptable clique ( ... )

Re: this is hal polishcyclist March 15 2006, 06:46:38 UTC

yeah, but you and seb are missing the crucial bit: Done well, it looks good.

And by done well I don't me AF - that's hardly hipster - or midwestern aesthetic. Tight euro-style, indie-band referencing t-shirt, sharp blazer, rip tight jeans, maybe a porkpie hat; that looks good.

Re: this is hal anonymous March 15 2006, 07:16:16 UTC

I was only citing AF as the mainstream knockoff of a hipster trend. This was within the general point that in the end the signature contribution of hipster culture may be giving clothing companies new ideas on how to make lots of money off the rest of the population (excepting music, which I'm not competent to judge). As a case in point, there was this guy in williamsburg who just let Levi's copy his pants exactly in order to sell them, presumably to hordes of uncool midwestern kids. I hope he gets a percentage.

in your hipster portrait, don't forget the vintage converse or the bizarrely tight sweater...and the comp lit glasses

what the hell is a porkpie hat?

Re: this is hal polishcyclist March 15 2006, 07:25:59 UTC

A pork pie hat is a felt hat, similer to a Trilby, dating from the middle 19th century, much the same as a fedora, but with a flattened top. The crown is short, and has a characteristic indent all the way around, rather than the "pinch crown" typically seen on fedoras and homburgs. It gets its name from its resemblance to a pork pie. The brim on a pork pie hat is generally on the smaller side, and is worn up, though it can be worn down in the front. The hats come in straw varieties as well ( ... )

ah, fucked up copy and past above. Take2 polishcyclist March 15 2006, 07:26:59 UTC

comp lit glasses are usually overdone. Trying too hard is so un-hip ( ... )

Re: ah, fucked up copy and past above. Take2 paulhope March 15 2006, 20:48:25 UTC

Haha--I get it.

I thought your first paragraph was unusually encyclopedic for you. I need to talk to you about timing of your visit soon.

Re: this is hal paulhope March 15 2006, 15:53:01 UTC

yeah, but you and seb are missing the crucial bit: Done well, it looks good.

Yes, that's exactly the sort of point I'd miss.

Re: this is hal anonymous March 15 2006, 07:26:27 UTC

To clarify what I was saying above, I'm not knocking on hipsters or any other group. That would be especially dumb for me as I live day-to-day in a mostly hipster-inspired milieu, and many of my best friends are ones. I was just commenting on the general structure of contemporary society.

Re: this is hal polishcyclist March 15 2006, 07:27:53 UTC

and I didn't agree with any of your commentary. I was just suggesting that you are missing the 'it is aesthetically pleasing' angle

Re: this is hal polishcyclist March 15 2006, 07:28:30 UTC

by "agree" I mean "disagree". I should quit before I fuck up yet more.

aesthetic relativism!!! boomerang anonymous March 15 2006, 07:44:33 UTC

yeah, but nothing can be aesthetically pleasing in a vacuum. things are only aesthetically pleasing because they're "in demand" or are valorized (douchebag word) as goodlooking for whatever reasons particular to a culture, a place, and a time. the fact that the modern hipster (interesting, piotr, that you chose a male example, and not a female one) looks good is a symptom and not a cause per se.

Re: aesthetic relativism!!! boomerang polishcyclist March 15 2006, 14:24:49 UTC

To a certain degree (because, after all, there are certain fashion features that seem to be relatively permanent), yes. It is impossible, however, to abstract oneself - the fact that my aesthetic sensibilities are an artifice of my particular milieu doesn't make it any less true for my experiences. All aesthetic judgments are subject to your caveat.

And I chose a male example because I dress like a guy, not a girl. What is interesting about that? Also, hipster girls often look less attractive than hipster guys.

Re: aesthetic relativism!!! boomerang paulhope March 15 2006, 20:55:54 UTC

I feel validated.

I would disagree with you on the general point that "things are only aesthetically pleasing ... for whatever reasons particular to a culture, a place, and a time" because it seems plausible if not likely to me that there are some very abstract and biologically determined aesthetic standards. I could conceive of some noises or smells, for example, to be universally upsetting, or at least (and then this opens up the debate again) a universal 'starting point,' a prior preference that puts soft constraints on future preferences.

That said, it would be absurd to presume that hipster fashion resonated particularly well with such human constants.

Re: this is hal ode_to_tapirs March 15 2006, 16:26:07 UTC

ok, I bite...out of curiousity, which "historical countercultures" are we thinking of? I'm not saying there aren't any that don't necessitate buying into something/create a product for mass consumption at some point (that would make me cynical!); I'm just wondering at your use of the definite article in this case.

However, that question was against my better judgment, because (as I've said) I'm sure this can all be covered in a thread beginning "omg wtf @ hipsterz on L train?" on Craigslist (followed, presumably, by a stinging "no1 wants to bone Me@the@d Yuppiez!")

Re: this is hal anonymous March 16 2006, 03:55:59 UTC

The aesthetes/bohemians of 19th century france, the nihilists in russia, the 50's beats, the 60's hippies. All these countercultures revolved around new ideas on how to live, sometimes utopian ideals, new takes on human sensibility, etc.

Re: this is hal ode_to_tapirs March 16 2006, 06:49:21 UTC

how do we feel about dandyism as a counterculture?

Might we say that hipsters are just "clothes wearing men"? (My point here is just to respond to the 'good old days' vibe I'm getting from this dear little debate on this hipstery medium - we seem to be offering up some relatively old complaints)

It's just the definite article thing.

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