Стенограмма Нюрнбергского процесса. Том XIV.
ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTY-SEVENTH DAY
Thursday, 23 May 1946
DR. SAUTER: This is the period around 1924, that is, a year after the Hitler Putsch.
In that way, Witness, the circle of which you were then a member came under National Socialist influences. Was this also supported with reading, reading of National Socialist literature?
VON SCHIRACH: Of course, I do not know what my comrades read, with the exception of one book which I shall give you directly. I know only what I read myself; I was interested at that time in the writings of the Bayreuth thinker, Chamberlain, in The Foundations of the Nineteenth Century, in the writings of Adolf Bartels, in his Introduction to World Literature and History of German National Literature. There were works. . .
THE PRESIDENT: I have already told you that we do not want to know the full story of the defendant's education. He is now giving us a series of the books which he has read, but we are not interested.
DR. SAUTER: Very well, Mr. President.
VON SCHIRACH: I shall only say in one sentence that these were works which had no definite anti-Semitic tendencies, but through which anti-Semitism was drawn like a red thread. The decisive anti-Semitic book which I read at that time and the book which influenced my comrades. . .
DR. SAUTER: Please . . .
VON SCHIRACH: . . . was Henry Ford's book, The International Jew; I read it and became anti-Semitic. In those days this book made such a deep impression on my friends and myself because we saw in Henry Ford the representative of success, also the exponent of a progressive social policy. In the poverty-stricken and wretched Germany of the time, youth looked toward America, and apart from the great benefactor, Herbert Hoover, it was Henry Ford
who to us represented America.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Sauter, the Tribunal thinks, as I have said twice now, that the educational influences of the defendant are quite irrelevant to us. I do not want to say it again and, unless you can control the defendant and keep him to the point, I shall have to stop his evidence.
DR. SAUTER: But, Mr. President, is it not of interest to the Tribunal when judging this defendant and his personality that they know how the defendant became a National Socialist and how the defendant became anti-Semitic? I had thought.. .
THE PRESIDENT: No, it is not of interest to the Tribunal.
…
DR. SAUTFR: With what material means was that youth organization created at that time?
VON SCHIRACH: With the means furnished by the young people themselves.
DR. SAUTER: And how were those funds raised? By collections?
VON SCHIRACH: The boys and girls paid membership fees. A part of these membership fees was kept at the so-called district leadership offices, which corresponded to the Gauleitung in the Party or to the SA Gruppenführung in the SA. Another part went to the Reich Youth Leader. The Hitler Youth financed its organization with its own means.
DR. SAUTER: Then, I am interested in the following: Did the Hitler Youth, which you created and which was given Hitler's name, get its importance only after the seizure of power and by the seizure of power only, or what was the previous size of this youth organization which you created?
VON SCHIRACH: Before the seizure of power, in 1932 the Hitler Youth was already the largest youth movement of Germany. I should Like to add here that the individual National Socialist youth organizations which I found when I took over my office as Reich Youth Leader were merged by me into one large unified youth movement. This youth movement was the strongest youth movement of Germany, long before we came to power.
On 2 October 1932, the Hitler Youth held a meeting at Potsdam. At that meeting more than 100,000 youth from all over the Reich met without the Party's providing a single pfennig. The means were contributed by the young people themselves. Solely from the number of the participants, it can be seen that that was the largest youth movement.
DR. SAUTER: That was, therefore, several months before the seizure of power, and at that time already more than 100,000 participants were at that rally at Potsdam?
VON SCHIRACH: Yes.
…
DR. SAUTER: The Prosecution has made the accusation, Witness, that later, after the seizure of power-I-believe in February 1933-you took over the Reich Committee of German Youth
Organizations. Is that correct, and against whom was that action directed?
VON SCHIRACH: That is correct. The Reich Committee of Youth Organizations was practically no more than a statistical office which was subordinate to the Reich Minister of the Interior. That office was managed by a retired general, General Vogt, who later became one of my ablest assistants. The taking over of that Reich Committee was a revolutionary act, a measure which youth carried out for youth, for from that day on dates the realization of the idea of the Youth State within the State. I cannot say any more about that.
…
VON SCHIRACH: … And during the war, through the Child Evacuation Program that is, the organization by which we took care of evacuating the young people from the big cities endangered by bombing-I was in charge of education within the camps where these children were housed.
…
DR. SAUTER: Witness, did youngsters who did not join the Hitler Youth suffer any disadvantage for that reason?
VON SCHIRACH: Youngsters who did not join the Hitler Youth were at a disadvantage in that they could not take part in our camping, in our trips, in our sporting meets. They were in a certain sense outsiders of the youth life, and there was a danger that they might become hypochondriacs.
DR. SAUTER: But were there not certain professions in which membership in the HJ was a prerequisite for working in those professions?
VON SCHIRACH: Of course.
DR. SAUTER: What were the professions?
VON SCHIRACH: For instance, the profession of teacher. It is quite clear that a teacher cannot educate youth unless he himself knows the life of that youth, and so we demanded that the young teachers, that is those in training to teach, had to go through the HJ. The junior teacher had to be familiar with the ways of life of the pupils who were under his supervision.
DR. SAUTER: But there were only a few such professions, whereas for other professions membership in the HJ was not a prerequisite for admission. Or what was the situation?
VON SCHIRACH: I cannot answer that in detail. I believe that a discussion about that is not even possible, because the entire youth was in the Hitler Youth.
Thursday, 23 May 1946
DR. SAUTER: This is the period around 1924, that is, a year after the Hitler Putsch.
In that way, Witness, the circle of which you were then a member came under National Socialist influences. Was this also supported with reading, reading of National Socialist literature?
VON SCHIRACH: Of course, I do not know what my comrades read, with the exception of one book which I shall give you directly. I know only what I read myself; I was interested at that time in the writings of the Bayreuth thinker, Chamberlain, in The Foundations of the Nineteenth Century, in the writings of Adolf Bartels, in his Introduction to World Literature and History of German National Literature. There were works. . .
THE PRESIDENT: I have already told you that we do not want to know the full story of the defendant's education. He is now giving us a series of the books which he has read, but we are not interested.
DR. SAUTER: Very well, Mr. President.
VON SCHIRACH: I shall only say in one sentence that these were works which had no definite anti-Semitic tendencies, but through which anti-Semitism was drawn like a red thread. The decisive anti-Semitic book which I read at that time and the book which influenced my comrades. . .
DR. SAUTER: Please . . .
VON SCHIRACH: . . . was Henry Ford's book, The International Jew; I read it and became anti-Semitic. In those days this book made such a deep impression on my friends and myself because we saw in Henry Ford the representative of success, also the exponent of a progressive social policy. In the poverty-stricken and wretched Germany of the time, youth looked toward America, and apart from the great benefactor, Herbert Hoover, it was Henry Ford
who to us represented America.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Sauter, the Tribunal thinks, as I have said twice now, that the educational influences of the defendant are quite irrelevant to us. I do not want to say it again and, unless you can control the defendant and keep him to the point, I shall have to stop his evidence.
DR. SAUTER: But, Mr. President, is it not of interest to the Tribunal when judging this defendant and his personality that they know how the defendant became a National Socialist and how the defendant became anti-Semitic? I had thought.. .
THE PRESIDENT: No, it is not of interest to the Tribunal.
…
DR. SAUTFR: With what material means was that youth organization created at that time?
VON SCHIRACH: With the means furnished by the young people themselves.
DR. SAUTER: And how were those funds raised? By collections?
VON SCHIRACH: The boys and girls paid membership fees. A part of these membership fees was kept at the so-called district leadership offices, which corresponded to the Gauleitung in the Party or to the SA Gruppenführung in the SA. Another part went to the Reich Youth Leader. The Hitler Youth financed its organization with its own means.
DR. SAUTER: Then, I am interested in the following: Did the Hitler Youth, which you created and which was given Hitler's name, get its importance only after the seizure of power and by the seizure of power only, or what was the previous size of this youth organization which you created?
VON SCHIRACH: Before the seizure of power, in 1932 the Hitler Youth was already the largest youth movement of Germany. I should Like to add here that the individual National Socialist youth organizations which I found when I took over my office as Reich Youth Leader were merged by me into one large unified youth movement. This youth movement was the strongest youth movement of Germany, long before we came to power.
On 2 October 1932, the Hitler Youth held a meeting at Potsdam. At that meeting more than 100,000 youth from all over the Reich met without the Party's providing a single pfennig. The means were contributed by the young people themselves. Solely from the number of the participants, it can be seen that that was the largest youth movement.
DR. SAUTER: That was, therefore, several months before the seizure of power, and at that time already more than 100,000 participants were at that rally at Potsdam?
VON SCHIRACH: Yes.
…
DR. SAUTER: The Prosecution has made the accusation, Witness, that later, after the seizure of power-I-believe in February 1933-you took over the Reich Committee of German Youth
Organizations. Is that correct, and against whom was that action directed?
VON SCHIRACH: That is correct. The Reich Committee of Youth Organizations was practically no more than a statistical office which was subordinate to the Reich Minister of the Interior. That office was managed by a retired general, General Vogt, who later became one of my ablest assistants. The taking over of that Reich Committee was a revolutionary act, a measure which youth carried out for youth, for from that day on dates the realization of the idea of the Youth State within the State. I cannot say any more about that.
…
VON SCHIRACH: … And during the war, through the Child Evacuation Program that is, the organization by which we took care of evacuating the young people from the big cities endangered by bombing-I was in charge of education within the camps where these children were housed.
…
DR. SAUTER: Witness, did youngsters who did not join the Hitler Youth suffer any disadvantage for that reason?
VON SCHIRACH: Youngsters who did not join the Hitler Youth were at a disadvantage in that they could not take part in our camping, in our trips, in our sporting meets. They were in a certain sense outsiders of the youth life, and there was a danger that they might become hypochondriacs.
DR. SAUTER: But were there not certain professions in which membership in the HJ was a prerequisite for working in those professions?
VON SCHIRACH: Of course.
DR. SAUTER: What were the professions?
VON SCHIRACH: For instance, the profession of teacher. It is quite clear that a teacher cannot educate youth unless he himself knows the life of that youth, and so we demanded that the young teachers, that is those in training to teach, had to go through the HJ. The junior teacher had to be familiar with the ways of life of the pupils who were under his supervision.
DR. SAUTER: But there were only a few such professions, whereas for other professions membership in the HJ was not a prerequisite for admission. Or what was the situation?
VON SCHIRACH: I cannot answer that in detail. I believe that a discussion about that is not even possible, because the entire youth was in the Hitler Youth.