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[paleaswater]

I used to periodically whine to flemmings that the great Chinese collective unconscious is a bureaucracy. After all, other countries' quest stories are about great kings and knights. China's great quest story, the Journey to the West, is essentially about trying to get around the bureaucracy of Western Paradise. And even hell has all the accoutrement of a

Comments

[emblem]

XDDDDDDDDDD

*hearts all over* I never thought about it that way, but I love it now. XD

(P.S. 江湖 - my first thought was "that name sounds kinda redundant". But then I thought about it, and realized it would actually be a lovely metaphor for a collective unconscious. <3)

[paleaswater]

haha, at the risk of carrying the metaphor too far, because cultural remnants sink to the bottom of the lake and eventually wash up on the shore of collective unconscious? :P

[rasetsunyo]

Ahhhh I never read a Jin Yong! Sad but true. Must pick up a Simplified Chinese version some day, dad's trad. copies were kind of scary and off-putting. Good luck with Piglet! :p

I don't know how much today's concepts of of 江湖 owes to modern wuxia novels or pop culture portrayals (probably a fair bit), but it does seem to be a diasporic kind of thing....?

[paleaswater]

*gasp* you have not read Jin Ying!? You must remedy that asap. :P I'd say, start with 神雕侠侣 or 射雕英雄传, but my favorite is 天龙八部.

It's interesting, but I suspect that I don't know the diaspora idea of 江湖. What do you think of when you see the word? My idea probably derives more from the Mainland culture. The way I see 江湖 is that is potential repository for almost every possible Chinese experience, and its conventions have subsumed h centuries of accumulated knowledge and culture. For example, the hero is almost always tested with some sort of a 阵， a kind of labyrinth, I suppose, and the principle of it almost always comes from I-Ching, which is in fact the oldest systematic attempt by the Chinese to describe the creation and workings of the world. And there are so many other examples of this sort as well.

[rasetsunyo]

I saw a lot of TV series/movie productions though, with running commentary from dad. Not really a substitute, I know, but it did colour the way I saw the whole 江湖 thing.

I think... HK movies. As much HK traid movies as wuxia flicks, and a lot more swashbuckling than accumulated knowledge and culture. It sounds terribly shallow compared to what you know it as, but my experience of 江湖 is very much through pop culture fluff.

[paleaswater]

HK series are pretty good too, especially the 80's adaptations. I cried so much over Andy Liu's Yang Guo. But yeah, they kind of drop the cultural elements. Jin Yong's 天龙八部 was supposed to be built around a very Buddhist view of humanity, but none of that case through the series, which still was smashingly entertaining though.

[mvrdrk]

I read Jin Yong and didn't get huge swathes of it, not enough context in my head. I'm sure piglet will do better than I.

[paleaswater]

Oh dear, I doubt it. Both of your parents are Chinese. He only has me. And you make a good point. Context is everything, and how much of it would he get? The reason I "got" Jin Yong in third grade is probably because I already absorbed Tale of Three Kingdoms and Water Margin and Journey to the West by osmosis like every other kid at that time. It's probably going to be a total mystery to him. *palm face*

I did buy his an illustrated version of Journey to the West though, bureaucracy or not.

[mvrdrk]

But my parents made no attempts to teach us culture, it was all math and science and Americanization. Most of my peers never learned Chinese from their parents, they used English at home. It was the giant melting pot theory of the sixties.

I think piglet will know all that context since these days cultural heritage is important, you love the stuff, and you can both give him background. It's such an incredible opportunity, I'm sure you'll take advantage of it.

[shalimar1001]

当聊起易经时，我和朋友经常觉得《易经》是史前文明遗留下来的一点痕迹。

说到看金庸，我的姑姑也是指望能让她两个儿子看得明白金庸就足够了。不过，长期地请家庭教师得费多少金钱和耐心啊！姑姑朋友的女儿完全是靠她妈妈家教中文，据说能够看报纸什么的。当然，她的女儿很愿意学中文，这和教没兴趣的孩子又不是一回事了。

对于你家小猪，学中文确实不是件容易的事啊。

[paleaswater]

so I'm not the first to think this way. Haha, guess that's why it's the great Chinese diaspora-defying collective unconscious.

I have been reading about 河图, it's really fascinating. I have to do a post about it, even though I can barely make any sense of it.

[shalimar1001]

Enh, I can see that 河图 is even simpler than the book of change. That means its reading is even more difficult and complicated than the book of change.
I wonder how those ancient people able to create such puzzles. Did they just try to fool us? haha..
There must be something ET or a lost civilization, which was far greater than the one we are having right now.

[shalimar1001]

Personaly, I will classify the traditional or common practises and readings of Yiching are misreading. I find the study of Yiching a personal spiritual quest. It could be object true, but most likely they are subjective knowledge that makes sense only to oneself. I try to say the reading of Yiching though could be improved by studying the conclusion of others, but in order to understand it or apply it effectively, something has to be brought up by your own study.
Just to imagine Zhuge Liang and Liu Bowen, both of them were famous for able to make use of Yiching per history, but their readings for sure could not be conveyed to each other. Otherwise, their descendants could have learned them.
I don't know if my point makes any sense...