while the DNC will do whatever it's members decide if they decided to go down that road I will no longer be able to say I lean Democrat if they go that far left.
No buddy, making it so that everyone has access to an essential service and making it so that corporations can't make profit of people's misery is just common sense
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Yet with all of those claims my statement that it is far left still stands. You are just already on the far left.
And it may be common sense to you and that's fine. Everyone has the right to make their own choice. For me the idea of giving up that much control and power to the Federal government isn't common sense, it's asking for corruptions, asking for waste and abuse of power. It's asking for trouble and needs to be prevented from happening. That's common sense to me.
Except that it's the other way around. Leaving healthcare to private for profit insurance welcomes corruption, welcomes waste, and welcomes abuse of power.
Leaving healthcare to the government, means that it has to be accountable to the people, rather than to some number pushers who are just trying to make a profit out of it, so that some rich guy can buy another yacht.
That might be the socialist in me, but I much prefer trusting the government, over some faceless corporation who's only concern is, how much money they can make out of something.
Wrong, both government and private run health care will have corruption, waste, and abuse. (personally I believe government would have more than private companies.) The different is I can change companies or even call on the government to use regulations to improve private companies (which is what needs to happen) but when it is the government that is healthcare that becomes much harder, and given in the US both the healthcare and those regulating it would be part of the Executive branch it would be asking one group to check itself.
That might be the socialist in me, but I much prefer trusting the government, over some faceless corporation who's only concern is, how much money they can make out of something.
See I'm the other way around. I trust companies to be predictable and stable in ways I don't expect of the Federal Government. And I have no problems with profits.
See, that's where you're wrong. I can fire (aka vote out) the politicians, if I don't like their work. I can't fire the heads of a multimillion dollar corporation like the ones in charge of insurance companies, if they decide to screw people over
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See, that's where you're wrong. I can fire (aka vote out) the politicians, if I don't like their work. I can't fire the heads of a multimillion dollar corporation like the ones in charge of insurance companies, if they decide to screw people over.
But I can change the company I use. Which is faster and more reliable than hoping enough other people also want to change politicians (and in the US the re-election rate normally sits at 80% or more so chances of changing them large scale isn't likely).
And when I said choice I was talking about you liking single payer. That is your choice. As is your choice to trust your government more. Your experiences are clearly better than mine have been. I'll take private over public 9 times out of 10. Other than more regulations I want government out of healthcare.
That's another difference between Belgium and the US. We have way more parties than you guys do. Parties with an actual chance of getting into the government that is.I am fully in favor of more active parties but the problem is most of
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Sure, you can change companies...in theory. The brutal reality, though, for far too many prople with significant health issues (which, lbr, is virtually all of us, once we get to a certain age) is that the costs can get jacked up to where only the suoer rich can afford tham. At that pont, when your "choices" all want to charge you more money than you can possibly afford to pay, the whole idea of "choice" goes right out the window.
I'm guessing that you're relatively young and free (so far) of any serious health issues that require ongoing care and/or medication. If not, please don't hesitate to set me straight-- but most people I've known who talk like you are in that category. Being faced with the harsh realities of desperately needing care that they can’t afford to pay for has a tendency to make people think about these things differently.
The brutal reality, though, for far too many prople with significant health issues (which, lbr, is virtually all of us, once we get to a certain age) is that the costs can get jacked up to where only the suoer rich can afford tham
Yes that is a problem, your answer is let the government run everything, My answer is have the government regulate private companies more.
If I'm wrong, please do let me know.No you are right I have been lucky. My mother on the other hand has not been. And she has VA medical (government run healthcare for retired military) and I have seen her have to wait months for appointment, go years without a doctor, only a nurse practitioner that will see her when she can get appointments. Being told that she has to drive an hour north to the VA center because they will not let her go to a local ER after she fell and broke her arm (which they then failed to tell her was broken until a week later and this was just last month). I've seen her sent home by one doctor saying she was fine and later that same day my aunt
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"See I'm the other way around. I trust companies to be predictable and stable in ways I don't expect of the Federal Government. And I have no problems with profits."
Sorry, but "I trust companies" is an oxymoron afaic. To be quite honest, I don't "trust companies" to do shit, except make as much money as they can any way that they can. (Which, lbr, is what they exist for, after all.) What I have a problem with is some company making decisions about MY health and well-being based on nothing other than THEIR profit margins. Afaic, that is just plain fucked up.
Beyond that I will point out two things. I said 'I trust companies to be predictable and stable' I don't trust them full stop but I believe in five years they won't have pulled a full U-turn and changed all the rules for healthcare.
Because what if the ACA had been a single payer system? What if the Republicans had a few more votes for their repel? And the U.S. goes from full healthcare to no healthcare. See how that's a problem, because I do. I trust companies not to do that. I don't trust the government not to.
What I have a problem with is some company making decisions about MY health and well-being based on nothing other than THEIR profit margins. So you'd rather it be the government making those decisions about your health based on budget deficit and debt ceiling? how is that any better?
your use of "giving up" implies that you have an actual choice which, unless you're either extremely wealthy, or actually have significant stock in a health insurance company, simply isn't true. You do not have a choice over anything they or any for-profit company chooses to do. You have the illusory belief in a choice and impact created by the notion of a free market that doesn't actually exist.
How do I, as a working class person respond to a corporation pricing me out of my life-sustaining medicine? Especially if it's a medicine they have a market monopoly over? I can't vote out the CEO nor can I seek out cheaper, legal alternatives, and that CEO has no obligations to me because they don't need my vote. There is at least a level of direct and obvious accountability when the government runs it. I can at least vote out a corrupt politician pushing absurd health care laws or vote against harmful healthcare legislation at local levels.
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You really have no idea what far left means, if you think single payer is far left.
My sister lives in England. She can't stop talking about how awesome the NHS is.
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Nationalization of a industry is far left.
My sister lives in England. She can't stop talking about how awesome the NHS is.
So?
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And it may be common sense to you and that's fine. Everyone has the right to make their own choice. For me the idea of giving up that much control and power to the Federal government isn't common sense, it's asking for corruptions, asking for waste and abuse of power. It's asking for trouble and needs to be prevented from happening. That's common sense to me.
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Leaving healthcare to the government, means that it has to be accountable to the people, rather than to some number pushers who are just trying to make a profit out of it, so that some rich guy can buy another yacht.
That might be the socialist in me, but I much prefer trusting the government, over some faceless corporation who's only concern is, how much money they can make out of something.
Reply
Wrong, both government and private run health care will have corruption, waste, and abuse. (personally I believe government would have more than private companies.) The different is I can change companies or even call on the government to use regulations to improve private companies (which is what needs to happen) but when it is the government that is healthcare that becomes much harder, and given in the US both the healthcare and those regulating it would be part of the Executive branch it would be asking one group to check itself.
That might be the socialist in me, but I much prefer trusting the government, over some faceless corporation who's only concern is, how much money they can make out of something.
See I'm the other way around. I trust companies to be predictable and stable in ways I don't expect of the Federal Government. And I have no problems with profits.
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But I can change the company I use. Which is faster and more reliable than hoping enough other people also want to change politicians (and in the US the re-election rate normally sits at 80% or more so chances of changing them large scale isn't likely).
And when I said choice I was talking about you liking single payer. That is your choice. As is your choice to trust your government more. Your experiences are clearly better than mine have been. I'll take private over public 9 times out of 10. Other than more regulations I want government out of healthcare.
That's another difference between Belgium and the US. We have way more parties than you guys do. Parties with an actual chance of getting into the government that is.I am fully in favor of more active parties but the problem is most of ( ... )
Reply
I'm guessing that you're relatively young and free (so far) of any serious health issues that require ongoing care and/or medication. If not, please don't hesitate to set me straight-- but most people I've known who talk like you are in that category. Being faced with the harsh realities of desperately needing care that they can’t afford to pay for has a tendency to make people think about these things differently.
If I'm wrong, please do let me know.
Reply
Yes that is a problem, your answer is let the government run everything, My answer is have the government regulate private companies more.
If I'm wrong, please do let me know.No you are right I have been lucky. My mother on the other hand has not been. And she has VA medical (government run healthcare for retired military) and I have seen her have to wait months for appointment, go years without a doctor, only a nurse practitioner that will see her when she can get appointments. Being told that she has to drive an hour north to the VA center because they will not let her go to a local ER after she fell and broke her arm (which they then failed to tell her was broken until a week later and this was just last month). I've seen her sent home by one doctor saying she was fine and later that same day my aunt ( ... )
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"See I'm the other way around. I trust companies to be predictable and stable in ways I don't expect of the Federal Government. And I have no problems with profits."
Sorry, but "I trust companies" is an oxymoron afaic. To be quite honest, I don't "trust companies" to do shit, except make as much money as they can any way that they can. (Which, lbr, is what they exist for, after all.) What I have a problem with is some company making decisions about MY health and well-being based on nothing other than THEIR profit margins. Afaic, that is just plain fucked up.
Reply
Beyond that I will point out two things. I said 'I trust companies to be predictable and stable' I don't trust them full stop but I believe in five years they won't have pulled a full U-turn and changed all the rules for healthcare.
Because what if the ACA had been a single payer system?
What if the Republicans had a few more votes for their repel?
And the U.S. goes from full healthcare to no healthcare. See how that's a problem, because I do. I trust companies not to do that. I don't trust the government not to.
What I have a problem with is some company making decisions about MY health and well-being based on nothing other than THEIR profit margins.
So you'd rather it be the government making those decisions about your health based on budget deficit and debt ceiling? how is that any better?
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How do I, as a working class person respond to a corporation pricing me out of my life-sustaining medicine? Especially if it's a medicine they have a market monopoly over? I can't vote out the CEO nor can I seek out cheaper, legal alternatives, and that CEO has no obligations to me because they don't need my vote. There is at least a level of direct and obvious accountability when the government runs it. I can at least vote out a corrupt politician pushing absurd health care laws or vote against harmful healthcare legislation at local levels.
Reply
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