See, that's where you're wrong. I can fire (aka vote out) the politicians, if I don't like their work. I can't fire the heads of a multimillion dollar corporation like the ones in charge of insurance companies, if they decide to screw people over.
On top of that, thanks to our system, we don't depend on our employers for healthcare. So companies can't keep us under their control by their ability to give or take away healthcare.
If I quit a job, I still have the same healthcare that I did before. At no point do I have to worry that being out of a job, means that my family could lose their access to healthcare.
As for choice, you're forgetting that I did say semi-single payer. As a Belgian, I have the choice between joining several mutualities, all of whom offer their own incentives for people to join. (though honestly, most people join one based on their politics)
For example, I'm a member of the ABVV, which is the socialist mutualities, there's also the liberal, christian and independent mutualities. All of which are connected to their own political parties, and unions (more so in the past, than now)
If I don't like the way my mutuality handles things, I can always join one of the others. The more people join, the more funds they get from the government, so they're inclined to offer the best work possible to keep their funding.
I know what I can expect from my government. And yeah, Belgian bureaucracy can be horrible as well, but I'd still trust the government a million times more than I would trust some private company. Primarily because the government works for me (and every other Belgian), and they succeed when as many Belgians as possible, have the best possible lives.
In contrast to private companies who only care about making money, and would prefer not being accountable to anyone. (just look at how they're paying off the republicans in the US to get tax cuts for the rich, at the expense of the wellbeing of everyone else)
That's another difference between Belgium and the US. We have way more parties than you guys do. Parties with an actual chance of getting into the government that is. So since a vote for a smaller party isn't thrown away, like a third party vote is in the US, people here are more likely to vote for another party, if the one they voted for before, isn't doing the job they're supposed to do.
See, that's where you're wrong. I can fire (aka vote out) the politicians, if I don't like their work. I can't fire the heads of a multimillion dollar corporation like the ones in charge of insurance companies, if they decide to screw people over.
But I can change the company I use. Which is faster and more reliable than hoping enough other people also want to change politicians (and in the US the re-election rate normally sits at 80% or more so chances of changing them large scale isn't likely).
And when I said choice I was talking about you liking single payer. That is your choice. As is your choice to trust your government more. Your experiences are clearly better than mine have been. I'll take private over public 9 times out of 10. Other than more regulations I want government out of healthcare.
That's another difference between Belgium and the US. We have way more parties than you guys do. Parties with an actual chance of getting into the government that is. I am fully in favor of more active parties but the problem is most of the third parties in the US don't really try. Locally to me we have a rather active libertarian party and they do get elected but we are in the minority in that.
Sure, you can change companies...in theory. The brutal reality, though, for far too many prople with significant health issues (which, lbr, is virtually all of us, once we get to a certain age) is that the costs can get jacked up to where only the suoer rich can afford tham. At that pont, when your "choices" all want to charge you more money than you can possibly afford to pay, the whole idea of "choice" goes right out the window.
I'm guessing that you're relatively young and free (so far) of any serious health issues that require ongoing care and/or medication. If not, please don't hesitate to set me straight-- but most people I've known who talk like you are in that category. Being faced with the harsh realities of desperately needing care that they can’t afford to pay for has a tendency to make people think about these things differently.
The brutal reality, though, for far too many prople with significant health issues (which, lbr, is virtually all of us, once we get to a certain age) is that the costs can get jacked up to where only the suoer rich can afford tham
Yes that is a problem, your answer is let the government run everything, My answer is have the government regulate private companies more.
If I'm wrong, please do let me know.
No you are right I have been lucky. My mother on the other hand has not been. And she has VA medical (government run healthcare for retired military) and I have seen her have to wait months for appointment, go years without a doctor, only a nurse practitioner that will see her when she can get appointments. Being told that she has to drive an hour north to the VA center because they will not let her go to a local ER after she fell and broke her arm (which they then failed to tell her was broken until a week later and this was just last month). I've seen her sent home by one doctor saying she was fine and later that same day my aunt drove her back to the VA center where she ended up staying for over a week because she almost died from kidney failure.
So as I said else where in this thread we've clearly had different experiences with our different governments. I do not trust mine to run healthcare.
On top of that, thanks to our system, we don't depend on our employers for healthcare. So companies can't keep us under their control by their ability to give or take away healthcare.
If I quit a job, I still have the same healthcare that I did before. At no point do I have to worry that being out of a job, means that my family could lose their access to healthcare.
As for choice, you're forgetting that I did say semi-single payer. As a Belgian, I have the choice between joining several mutualities, all of whom offer their own incentives for people to join. (though honestly, most people join one based on their politics)
For example, I'm a member of the ABVV, which is the socialist mutualities, there's also the liberal, christian and independent mutualities. All of which are connected to their own political parties, and unions (more so in the past, than now)
If I don't like the way my mutuality handles things, I can always join one of the others. The more people join, the more funds they get from the government, so they're inclined to offer the best work possible to keep their funding.
I know what I can expect from my government. And yeah, Belgian bureaucracy can be horrible as well, but I'd still trust the government a million times more than I would trust some private company. Primarily because the government works for me (and every other Belgian), and they succeed when as many Belgians as possible, have the best possible lives.
In contrast to private companies who only care about making money, and would prefer not being accountable to anyone. (just look at how they're paying off the republicans in the US to get tax cuts for the rich, at the expense of the wellbeing of everyone else)
That's another difference between Belgium and the US. We have way more parties than you guys do. Parties with an actual chance of getting into the government that is. So since a vote for a smaller party isn't thrown away, like a third party vote is in the US, people here are more likely to vote for another party, if the one they voted for before, isn't doing the job they're supposed to do.
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But I can change the company I use. Which is faster and more reliable than hoping enough other people also want to change politicians (and in the US the re-election rate normally sits at 80% or more so chances of changing them large scale isn't likely).
And when I said choice I was talking about you liking single payer. That is your choice. As is your choice to trust your government more. Your experiences are clearly better than mine have been. I'll take private over public 9 times out of 10. Other than more regulations I want government out of healthcare.
That's another difference between Belgium and the US. We have way more parties than you guys do. Parties with an actual chance of getting into the government that is.
I am fully in favor of more active parties but the problem is most of the third parties in the US don't really try. Locally to me we have a rather active libertarian party and they do get elected but we are in the minority in that.
Reply
I'm guessing that you're relatively young and free (so far) of any serious health issues that require ongoing care and/or medication. If not, please don't hesitate to set me straight-- but most people I've known who talk like you are in that category. Being faced with the harsh realities of desperately needing care that they can’t afford to pay for has a tendency to make people think about these things differently.
If I'm wrong, please do let me know.
Reply
Yes that is a problem, your answer is let the government run everything, My answer is have the government regulate private companies more.
If I'm wrong, please do let me know.
No you are right I have been lucky. My mother on the other hand has not been. And she has VA medical (government run healthcare for retired military) and I have seen her have to wait months for appointment, go years without a doctor, only a nurse practitioner that will see her when she can get appointments. Being told that she has to drive an hour north to the VA center because they will not let her go to a local ER after she fell and broke her arm (which they then failed to tell her was broken until a week later and this was just last month). I've seen her sent home by one doctor saying she was fine and later that same day my aunt drove her back to the VA center where she ended up staying for over a week because she almost died from kidney failure.
So as I said else where in this thread we've clearly had different experiences with our different governments. I do not trust mine to run healthcare.
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