Shoulda just said this "you don't have to believe in his innocence to believe he should be free." and had a comment about how it's unnecessary to incarcerate people for non violent crimes.
Because like... I get it that it's hard to believe your brother lied like this but like... he definitely did. lmao
What does that do though? Is society in any way safer because this doofus spends time behind bars? What does that accomplish that other forms of justice can't do better?
Like I said, if we were dealing with any other situation, if this story hadn't been so widely publicized and if he weren't a celebrity, then sure, other forms of justice would be preferable. But what he did, adding to the skepticism actual victims of hate crimes already have to suffer through? Let him spend some time behind bars for that.
"if he weren't a celebrity, then sure, other forms of justice would be preferable"
Just because he is a celeb doesn't mean he doesn't deal with mental health issues and deserve the same compassion as any other person.
black victims were ignored/treated poorly/killed for no good reason before Jussie did this and the same thing is continuing today regardless of it. his actions did not change that because it was already that way and not changing.
i disagree with putting him in jail. therapy, comm service, and a fine would be good enough and if they really, really wanted to punish him like that put him on house arrest, sex offenders and pedophiles are far worse and they get to live in a home while under arrest.
Re: edit: erased a lot and changed it a lil. im lil grump in the morning want to talk better with otdianakingstonMarch 13 2022, 17:44:08 UTC
First off, let's not invoke mental health issues when there's no indication a person's mentally ill. As far as anyone knows at this moment, Jussie Smollett isn't suffering from any kind of mental illness, there's been no assessment or diagnosis. And bringing it up prematurely can make it seem like an excuse, which I'm assuming you didn't mean it that way.
Second, my compassion for him ran out somewhere around the realization that, considering he's still maintaining his innocence, he would've let those two guys go to jail for, what, aggravated assault? Attempted murder? They were black too, it's not like they would've had a better shot in court than he did. Everyone's fixating on this notion that "all he did was lie", but how exactly would this have played out if he'd gotten away with it?
Pay a hefty fine and honestly he’s got money. He doesn’t have to work to live. So give him a shit ton of community service and a short time frame to do it in so that community service is basically a full time job for him for six months. That’s what I would do as a judge.
Yeah I feel like he should be saddled with extensive community service and a big ass fine. Or maybe house arrest, putting him in jail also feels like a waste of resources when he should be giving back for the resources he wasted.
Because incarceration isn't actually a solution to crimes - especially non-violent ones like this. Nothing of value is gained by taking a person and shoving them into a traumatic environment, even if they did something that we as a society find to be inappropriate. "This person did something wrong, so we're going to hurt them over a long period of time and claim that this somehow "repays" society for what they've done" is an insane thought process as soon as you actually follow it through to its logical conclusion.
That's totally true but now you're talking about total system reform. Jurnee is saying her brother should be free - that's what I'm querying.
FWIW, I worked in corrections policy for 6+ years. Prison doesn't rehabilitate. It just doesn't.
If I could make one immediate change, I'd divert all non-violent offenders away from prisons, and end all short sentences (<2 years). They're costly, they increase reoffending, and they don't do anything for rehabilitation.
But if I could, I'd totally redo the prison model so that only two types of offenders went to prison: (1) those who required clinical intervention but who had shown they would not attend in the community, with sentences totally reflecting psychiatric advice and with programs geared towards living in the community and (2) those who are classed as dangerous sexual and/or violent offenders where it is in society's interest that they be locked away, but still with a strong emphasis on rehabilitation and pro-social behaviour for their eventual release.
Oh I gotcha - it is an assumption on my part but it seems like she's specifically calling out incarceration, not saying that he shouldn't be punished or in some way address what he did.
Also, your stance on prisons seems really reasonable to me! I know some people want total abolition but like...that doesn't seem to address that not all people will be willing to cooperate with more community-based approaches to justice.
Given that you've worked in the field for a while, do you have any recommendations for further reading? This is definitely an area I'd like to be more thoroughly educated on
Full disclosure - I'm in Australia, so most of the literature I read probably isn't as applicable to America where I assume you're based?
However, our prisons have most of the same issues, including a horrible bias against Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders who have for too long been locked up, and killed, in prisons
( ... )
soapbox comment, butlikeiused2March 13 2022, 15:49:30 UTC
the 150k fine and a BUTTLOAD of community service would have been more appropriate. he's a non-violent offender, and jail should be used to protect the community at large from threats to their safety. of course, this is a particular mindset, and maybe you don't agree, but a lot of people think that non-violent offenders (people with drug possession charges, for example, or petty theft) should not be sitting in jail. these people aren't threats to the public safety. there are other avenues to redemption that can and should be taken. rehab services, for example. community service. helping people find gainful employment. it does chicagoans no good to have jussie behind bars
( ... )
Because like... I get it that it's hard to believe your brother lied like this but like... he definitely did. lmao
Reply
Reply
Reply
Reply
Just because he is a celeb doesn't mean he doesn't deal with mental health issues and deserve the same compassion as any other person.
black victims were ignored/treated poorly/killed for no good reason before Jussie did this and the same thing is continuing today regardless of it. his actions did not change that because it was already that way and not changing.
i disagree with putting him in jail. therapy, comm service, and a fine would be good enough and if they really, really wanted to punish him like that put him on house arrest, sex offenders and pedophiles are far worse and they get to live in a home while under arrest.
Reply
Second, my compassion for him ran out somewhere around the realization that, considering he's still maintaining his innocence, he would've let those two guys go to jail for, what, aggravated assault? Attempted murder? They were black too, it's not like they would've had a better shot in court than he did. Everyone's fixating on this notion that "all he did was lie", but how exactly would this have played out if he'd gotten away with it?
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
Reply
Reply
If you don't believe in his innocence....why would you think he should be free?
Reply
Reply
FWIW, I worked in corrections policy for 6+ years.
Prison doesn't rehabilitate. It just doesn't.
If I could make one immediate change, I'd divert all non-violent offenders away from prisons, and end all short sentences (<2 years). They're costly, they increase reoffending, and they don't do anything for rehabilitation.
But if I could, I'd totally redo the prison model so that only two types of offenders went to prison:
(1) those who required clinical intervention but who had shown they would not attend in the community, with sentences totally reflecting psychiatric advice and with programs geared towards living in the community and (2) those who are classed as dangerous sexual and/or violent offenders where it is in society's interest that they be locked away, but still with a strong emphasis on rehabilitation and pro-social behaviour for their eventual release.
Reply
Also, your stance on prisons seems really reasonable to me! I know some people want total abolition but like...that doesn't seem to address that not all people will be willing to cooperate with more community-based approaches to justice.
Given that you've worked in the field for a while, do you have any recommendations for further reading? This is definitely an area I'd like to be more thoroughly educated on
Reply
However, our prisons have most of the same issues, including a horrible bias against Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders who have for too long been locked up, and killed, in prisons ( ... )
Reply
Reply
Reply
Leave a comment